On 31/08/12 11:21, Philipp Hug wrote: >>> not be much more bureaucratic burden than "provide conclusive accounting >> for >>> DebConf13" and "agree where the remaining money (or depts) shall go" >> that we >>> will have to do anyway. >> > > The accounting has to be separate anyway and the good thing with 2 > organisations is, that we're forced to keep them separate :) > Where the money goes when the organisation is closed is written in the > bylaws. > I see those options: > * money goes to a Debian affiliated organisation. Disadvantage: taxes might > need to be paid on this amount. > * money is given to a non-profit organisation related to Debian > * money is used for next debconf. >
On the issue of (a) leftover money and (b) membership, this is where a limited company may be more appropriate, e.g DC13 GmbH or DC13 AG? The shareholder could be SPI or the DPL, and the money reverts back to the shareholder on winding up the company. A member-based association is intended to be much more flexible than that. Shareholder organizations are much more rigid in those issues. It would be useful to clarify - does the organization need to be domiciled in CH, or could a UK entity be used? It takes 48 hours to set up a UK company, and costs less than £50. If the DebConf team keeps all the necessary records in a proper computer system for the accountant, the ongoing fees are about £750-1,000 per year for tax returns and compliance. There are other countries to choose from too, but having a company anywhere in Europe means it is possible to participate in the European VAT system (which does not include Switzerland sadly) - should a DebConf organization exist continuously, for all future DebConfs? I think that is much more relevant possibility than the debian.ch option. > I'd just keep all those options open in the bylaws. > > And no, if you organise dc13 within debian.ch you cannot just move the > money to the debian.ch account. > You'd also have to pay taxes! > In Switzerland, DebConf's worst case scenario is that every foreign sponsor and every person paying the professional rate will be charged VAT (about 8%). Swiss companies who sponsor DebConf will get a rebate of the 8% VAT on their tax return, but foreign sponsors can't get that money back, so it is just lost and the fundraising people have to work harder to get more sponsors. If a sponsor gives money to SPI, and SPI dumps the money in the DebConf13, Inc, bank account, will SPI have to pay the 8% VAT, or will it be cut out of the sponsor money? Or is there no VAT on money sent from outside Switzerland? Therefore, I feel that the choice of association/legal structure really needs to clarify the tax issue as well. The two issues go hand in hand. For future DebConfs -------------------- For future DebConfs, I think this has to be covered clearly in the bid process. Legal entity, tax structure, etc are very significant. DC14 bids don't have to create an association now, but they should explain if (a) they will use an existing association or (b) set up a new one. The bid can then explain the tax issues for their preferred association. There are many legitimate loopholes in the tax systems around the world, just look at how AOL didn't charge VAT in the UK for many years. Even the tax office and high court supported them using the loophole: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/03/freeserve_loses_aol_vat_case/ _______________________________________________ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
