-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Am 13.03.2016 um 11:28 schrieb Josef Moudrik: > How well do you think the mcts-weakness we have witnessed today is > hidden in AG? Or, how can one go about exploiting it > systematically? > > I think it might be well hidden by the value network being very > strong and true most of the time - it is much harder to get AG to > this state, than traditional mcts bots with much less truthful > evaluations. > > So, what would be Lee's best effort to exploit this? Complicating > and playing hopefully-unexpected-tesuji moves? > > Detlef: Demmis tweeted that the w78 caused b79 mistake, that only > surfaced out some ten moves later. Ca you share the development of > the value evals during these moves? Did your net fall down right > after move 78? My net is very unstable in the sequence, jumping around a lot. But I am in a very early state of value network, just wanted to state: This is probably more a problem of the value network, than of the MC playouts, they are quite stable in the sequence, but don't put to much into this, I am not really convinced of my net at the moment :( > > What an interesting times we live in :-) > > Regards, Josef > > Dne ne 13. 3. 2016 10:33 uživatel Marc Landgraf > <mahrgel...@gmail.com> napsal: > >> Oh, is it possible to provide those variants? Or is there a >> recording of the broadcast, reading the board is probably enough >> to roughly understand it. >> >> 2016-03-13 10:32 GMT+01:00 Chun Sun <sunchu...@gmail.com>: >>> Hi Marc, >>> >>> "but did not find a "solution" for Lee Sedol that broke >>> AlphaGos >> position" >>> -- this is not true. Ke Jie and Gu Li both found more than one >>> way to >> break >>> the position :) >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 5:26 AM, Marc Landgraf >>> <mahrgel...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> What is the most interesting part is, that at this point many >>>> pro commentators found a lot of aji, but did not find a >>>> "solution" for Lee Sedol that broke AlphaGos position. So the >>>> question remains: Did AlphaGo find a hole in it's own >>>> position and tried to dodge that? Was it too strong for its >>>> own good? Or was it a misevaluation due to the immense >>>> amounts of aji, which would not result in harm, if played >>>> properly? >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-03-13 9:54 GMT+01:00 Darren Cook <dar...@dcook.org>: >>>>> From Demis Hassabis: When I say 'thought' and 'realisation' >>>>> I just mean the output of #AlphaGo value net. It was around >>>>> 70% at move 79 and then dived on move 87 >>>>> >>>>> https://twitter.com/demishassabis/status/708934687926804482 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Assuming that is an MCTS estimate of winning probability, that 70% >>>>> sounds high (i.e. very confident); when I was doing the >>>>> computer-human team experiments, on 9x9, with three MCTS >>>>> programs, I generally knew >> I'd >>>>> found a winning move when the percentages moved from the >>>>> 48-52% range to, say, 55%. >>>>> >>>>> I really hope they reveal the win estimates for each move >>>>> of the 5 games. It will especially be interesting to then >>>>> compare that to the other leading MCTS programs. >>>>> >>>>> Darren >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Computer-go >>>>> mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org >>>>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>>> _______________________________________________ Computer-go >>>> mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org >>>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Computer-go >>> mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> _______________________________________________ Computer-go >> mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing > list Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJW5UNlAAoJEInWdHg+Znf4pWcQAJ7A/9lEwLVizz9Hc7JuUrPN /fRXN39kMJrgww+QYLDMfG0PLJgO4Y5yh+HNot7e4TQN/H5dDEFE2u4PkdQCDc7O c/uuQGg8Rlh089tZt5JNhHTokz7yGJ2Abg8lvZirAWue0vlySpehj4xzJbaJ5yPJ sXEIrFG8REPb3u6DJe5Mdi615CQDwdtZeLehK+tG71UN1P1a2RJBGUv6pb7hVNEh jN/zVfiwTJXp/eSvRmDuLaFyFmS29pOzFstqtOTLN8xu8D5XkBgQcAJYqd8eoGTU iPFlWwLNosoOh5DBWIYAdhbFBOOrKI0YWPsiCjWOYjXiwx5+ShCNxDPyTgQfKCki wvdxGnoDPfQDODWExfwPvx/N37LvW2zcL/tnfQ20L8WYLmauY8iCDSsttD79JpBx Ll0UUmBv1V75+Dr3M/hIFm5/Zb8A8rjv3HRiZH/cIytM3T5qjb0W6UfgblVSHhCL 2DCE9tGIlQXwfj/8jVCuYja9t7O9+K8mlpZ1hKwkngSufPPta9rcw9xOvIXRyRwE 4bdYuPFGjvZjS5n4AuY8f3DCrmWhXbk4rJlqnBLsf0UdFaXoV6wVApqc5ekyAePH 5fholIb5/PVBXsNmBHNnU4QBDr2pavDzoIq1l1t7tieAdD14hxdORYwbZW+nYWCl 2w+j1WtdDkxFIi5BNyH+ =LeQE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
