Alain Baeckeroot wrote: > Le mercredi 30 janvier 2008, David Fotland a écrit : > >> 3 kyu at this level is a lot for a person. I've know club players who never >> got better than 9k, and people who study and play may still take a year or >> more to make this much improvement. >> >> Many club players stall somewhere between 7k and 4k and never get any >> better. >> >> > > Agreed 100% > One example from one serious young guy (14yo) in my club. > I think he is clever (outside of go), and serious and he > "works" on go with 2 friends of his classroom, they discovered go together > last year. They also read books and once a month or so have a 3d > player who come to teach them... > http://www.gokgs.com/graphPage.jsp?user=minoru > > I wish i could improve as fast as they are doing, and they are > already stronger than some adults who play since years and don't improve > anymore. > I think hard work is WAY more important than raw talent. When I was young I watched old-timers in the chess club who never made it beyond about 1600-1700 ELO and they played chess their whole lives. You can play "fun" games forever and not improve much. I passed those guys in less than 1 year even though I was not any more intelligent or talented than they were. All I did was spent a few hours of very intense focused study. Not casual reading, but hard work study. I doubt this was more than half a work week of total time, but it was super quality time. If I had done 3 or 4 hours a week of this for a year or two, I would be at least a weak master, and I'm sure they would have been too with serious work. I never went beyond the low 1900's because I didn't put in any work.
I believe you COULD improve as fast as that young guy you are talking about, but you would need to do serious study. Not read some books while watching television, but putting yourself in a quiet room and being totally focused. A 3 dan teacher would help enormously. Bobby Fischer, (who recently died) was considered enormously talented and the best ever in his day. But a secret about him is that he probably studied chess more than any other human alive. Not casual study, but with an intense super-focused obsession. There are anecdotes of really strong players who didn't have to work at it, but they are anecdotes, not realities. You can be sure than any incredibly strong player put in the time. Some I'm sure had to put in more than others, but none of them are strangers to focused intense study. - Don > Alain > > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:computer-go- >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Dailey >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:18 PM >>> To: computer-go >>> Subject: Re: [computer-go] 19x19 Study - prior in bayeselo, and KGS >>> study >>> >>> I wish I knew how that translates to win expectancy (ELO rating.) Is >>> 3 kyu at this level a pretty significant improvement? >>> >>> - Don >>> >>> >>> >>> Hiroshi Yamashita wrote: >>> >>>>> Instead of playing UCT bot vs UCT bot, I am thinking about running a >>>>> scaling experiment against humans on KGS. I'll probably start with >>>>> 2k, 8k, 16k, and 32k playouts. >>>>> >>>> I have a result on KGS. >>>> >>>> AyaMC 6k (5.9k) 160000po >>>> >>> http://www.gokgs.com/graphPage.jsp?user=AyaMC >>> >>>> AyaMC2 9k (8.4k) 10000po >>>> >>> http://www.gokgs.com/graphPage.jsp?user=AyaMC2 >>> >>>> 160000po ... 20000po x8 core (8sec/move on Xeon 2.66GHz) >>>> 10000po ... 5000po x2 core (2sec/move on Opteron 2.4GHz) >>>> >>>> (5.9k) and (8.4k) are from the graph. >>>> >>>> AyaMC2 has played 97 games in a day on average. (2sec/move) >>>> I changed program 01/19/2008, but it is not stable yet. >>>> On this condition, 7 days or more will be needed for stable rating. >>>> >>>> Hiroshi Yamashita >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> computer-go mailing list >>>> computer-go@computer-go.org >>>> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> computer-go mailing list >>> computer-go@computer-go.org >>> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> computer-go mailing list >> computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > _______________________________________________ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
