Darren Cook wrote: >> 9x9 games is a bit silly. it doesn't actually capture any extra >> information about the program, since there's no such thing as >> a 9x9 rank to compare with/against, much less a dan rank. >> > > I disagree. In my studies of 9x9, over a number of years, the human > 19x19 rank generally carries over to 9x9. E.g. a 9p consistently beats a > 3p, a 6d consistently beats a 3d, a 1d consistently beats a 5k. Whether > they are playing at 19x19 or 9x9. > That's my assumption too. Although it's possible some players are better at one board size than another I don't believe the effect is likely to be major. Even if a strong player never played a 9x9 game I believe he would quickly adapt to it after 2 or 3 games.
> (As an aside, my conclusion from this, which I personally think is very > important, is that the main element of human go strength is shape, > tesuji and life/death reading.) > > UCT programs are a bit different, in that (as they are "brute-forcing" > in the number of legal moves) their strength does not scale up to higher > board sizes in the same way human strength does. But no-one is claiming > otherwise which is why people are referring to the 9x9 strength and the > 19x19 strength of Mogo and CrazyStone as separate things. > It's interesting to me that 19x19 go programs start out weaker relative to humans than 9x9 go programs. But I ran experiments that indicated wonderful scaling behavior in 19x19 go. If anything they improved MORE with depth. Of course I could only test at the low end of the skill range with a weak UCT program (an older Lazarus version.) The game at 19x19 is more difficult for computers, but this is very true of humans too. It's possible that strong humans just don't specialize in 9x9 go so perhaps this is a partial explanation. I think the good UCT programs are about 2-3 kyu lower at 19x19 relative to humans. Could it be that really it's the humans weaker at 9x9 since strong humans don't really specialize in 9x9 go? - Don > But, when we say Mogo is 3d at 9x9, it is fair to say that a human > player with a 3d rank at 19x19 will enjoy a challenging game with it. > > Darren > > _______________________________________________ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > _______________________________________________ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
