It's hard to believe crazy stone is 7 stones stronger than mfgo. I'd like to see some handicap games to show this. 100 ELO might have some relation 1 handicap stone at low ratings, but at higher strengths, 1 stone handicap must be a smaller ELO difference. David
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward de Grijs Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 12:15 PM To: computer-go Subject: RE: [computer-go] 19x19 CGOS If I combine some reactions so far I understand that the main motivation to have 30min/game or longer time controls is that that is more comparable to the pace of humans, and that is is more easy for some new programs (not MC based) I can imagine that some humans will argue that blitz ratings are not to be trusted, but I think that they can be. For MC programs this only mean that they are about 1 or 2 stones weaker (at 10 min. instead of 30 min) in relation to (already fast) traditional programs. The resulting difference against humans I do not know. If someone builds a different engine, (not MC) I can image that the time can be important, but only if the program needs that kind of time control. For MC programs one have to realise that the difference between the best program and the average programs is about 8 stones or more, (a very rough estimation of mine). So the time control only accounts here for only about 2 stones, which will not help the new programs to perform much better. Those large differences could be corrected by introducing handicap stones, but I realise that will not be easy to combine with an elo rating scale. This brings me to the beginning of the newly started CGOS 19x19: I thought one of the first goals was to get an impression between the strenght of MFGO and CrazyStone. I do not see any discussions related to that, while it is very interesting what is happening (or has happened already) Crazystone was about 2000 elo, mfgo is about 1800. The CrazyStone row has dissapeared because not enough games were played, so there will be a larger standard deviation around those values (I expect a 1 sigma value of about 50 elo. It would be interesting to incluse those numbers on every row (Don?)) What I think is happening is that Crazystone seems to be about 7 stones (or more) stronger than MFGO at these time controls, when CrazyStone will use 6 cores or so (which Remi has used in the past). How: Crazystone used about 3 minutes for each game, one using 1 cpu, so it has handicapped himself (maybe Remi is nice to David?). When using almost the full 30 minutes it will be about 3 stones or 300 elo stronger. Combined with 6 cores that will be another 2 or 3 stones or 250 elo. So we are looking at Crazystone 2550 elo, MFGO 1800 elo which roughly corresponds to 7 stones! Just food for though, and my opinion and my rough estimates which will be erratic (with a certain deviation:-) Edward _____ Windows Live Mail: Nu 2gb aan opslag - dat zijn maar liefst 1000 foto's - en nog steeds gratis! Windows Live Mail <http://imagine-windowslive.com/mail/launch/default.aspx?Locale=nl-nl)>
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