>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: computer-go@computer-go.org
>Sent: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:03 AM
>Subject: Re: [computer-go] Big board, ++physics
>
>Your analogy with physics encourage me to share other physical analogies.
>1/ Cooling the simulation could be done by controlling the mixing rate
>and the density of stones.
>-Beginners'games are too cold, not enought mixed (=overconcentrated or
> very high viscosity, nearly solid state, not ignitable)
>-Professionnal games are probably near critical state (explosive conditions,
> gaz state)
>-MC-players are nearly random = too hot, too mixed, plasma state.
>
>2/ Soap Bubbles = potential territory
>In addition to previous fluid state, i see hypothetical bubbles:
>- beginners makes some (less than 10) big bubbles, and their size and place
> are early known. (still too cold and too high viscosity)
>- professional can makes lots of bubbles (20+), but they are changing and
> turning very often and quickly
>- nearly-random makes a foam
>
>3/ Solidification and cristal growth often comes to mind.
>Cristal growth need a "seed" to begin, generally it is a defect or some
>impurity. In go the defect are the corners:
>- they need less material to build a frontier (like soap bubbles) so corners
> are the beginning of the process of "solidification" or cristal growth.
>- the topology of the corner (2 libs, 3 libs and 4 libs) imposes the
> size and shape of a living group.
>- impurity is a captured stone/group
>
>4/ shape/size resonance
>(un)fortunately the 19x19 size is just the critical size to have problems.
>-17x17 is too small, corners influence is too strong, it is quickly
> possible to take the border. (= 3 bubbles)
>-21x21 is too wide, it is not possible to quickly prevent easy invasion.
> (= 4 bubbles) (a strong go player told me: both are boring to play)
>-19x19 is critical, just in between, that's why it's fun (=3.1415 bubbles ;)
>
>
5/ Percolation: I tend to think of some dynamical systems (like spin-glasses)
as naturally moving toward a static end-state where every cell is frozen (e.g
up or down, black or white). (This is generally a good property for go games to
have too.) But some systems just keep going. As you bring water to a boil,
first you get tiny bubbles too widely spread to intact; later they start to
merge; there is an edge of chaos/complexity region; and then you wind up with a
chaotic boiling mess.
If you removed any go rules against suicide or eye filling and made
passing illegal (any empty space is legal-although it might be suicide), then a
playout game would boil away forever. Just what my go engine needs ;) By tuning
the playout rules, you might get different scaling effects.
- Dave Hillis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Big board, ++physics
Le jeudi 22 février 2007 01:16, David Doshay a écrit :
> It is pretty clear to me that, if the analogy to MC simulations in
> magnets
> is of any value, the temperature of the Go game you show is hotter than
> optimal.
>
> If the temperature were at the transition temperature, then each of the
> renormalized lattices would look just like a piece that size cut from
> the
> original. Because the details all get smaller, the original lattice
> is on the
> random, or hotter, side of the transition.
>
> Thank you very much for this work. I am mulling this over ... how to
> cool the Go simulation slightly from the pure MC that you did.
>
Your analogy with physics encourage me to share other physical analogies.
1/ Cooling the simulation could be done by controlling the mixing rate
and the density of stones.
-Beginners'games are too cold, not enought mixed (=overconcentrated or
very high viscosity, nearly solid state, not ignitable)
-Professionnal games are probably near critical state (explosive conditions,
gaz state)
-MC-players are nearly random = too hot, too mixed, plasma state.
2/ Soap Bubbles = potential territory
In addition to previous fluid state, i see hypothetical bubbles:
- beginners makes some (less than 10) big bubbles, and their size and place
are early known. (still too cold and too high viscosity)
- professional can makes lots of bubbles (20+), but they are changing and
turning very often and quickly
- nearly-random makes a foam
3/ Solidification and cristal growth often comes to mind.
Cristal growth need a "seed" to begin, generally it is a defect or some
impurity. In go the defect are the corners:
- they need less material to build a frontier (like soap bubbles) so corners
are the beginning of the process of "solidification" or cristal growth.
- the topology of the corner (2 libs, 3 libs and 4 libs) imposes the
size and shape of a living group.
- impurity is a captured stone/group
4/ shape/size resonance
(un)fortunately the 19x19 size is just the critical size to have problems.
-17x17 is too small, corners influence is too strong, it is quickly
possible to take the border. (= 3 bubbles)
-21x21 is too wide, it is not possible to quickly prevent easy invasion.
(= 4 bubbles) (a strong go player told me: both are boring to play)
-19x19 is critical, just in between, that's why it's fun (=3.1415 bubbles ;)
I made very slow progress to formalize this, except density which is rather
trivial, and a kind of temperature, but it needs a lot of go knowledge
to work (something like gnugo internals), so it is not (yet) very suitable
for a fast MC simulator.
But the whole stuff is rather coherent in my mind.
Alain
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