Antoine, Have you tried a 12" handle for the wife? More leverage.
Chuck Resolute 1990 C&C 34R Atlantic City, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Brass" <rickbr...@earthlink.net> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 1:14:09 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc. I’m actually surprised that no one has suggested just getting the self tailing conversion kits for your Barient 28s that are supplied by Winchmate. http://www.winchmate.com/tech_specs.html That way you don’t need to worry about the mounting holes (though proper bedding of the winches with backing plates would still be a good idea), you have the advantages of BIG WINCHES, and the cost of the conversion kits for two winches is significantly lower than the cost of a single Anderson/Lewmar/Harken self-tailer. The website I had bookmarked for winch equivalency does not seem to be working, but IIRC the 28s you plan to replace are about equal to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 52s or 54s. The old 26s were something like a 46 or 48. As someone else said, no one has ever complained about having winches that were too big. Here is a method for sizing winches that was suggested to me many years ago - probably by someone on this list: 1) The average man can generate 50-70 pounds of pull when grinding a winch, the average woman something less – like 35 to 50. (Average man can lift 75 to 100, and pull down 150 to 200 depending on his weight.) 2) Go to the Harken website and use the utility they have for sizing genoa sheet blocks. They have a good system for estimating the sheet loads that is pretty good.. Figure out what your sheet loads are for your smallest headsail in 25 to 30 knot winds. I think Dennis pointed out that the load on your smaller sails is much higher than on your Genoa, because the force is proportional to the square of the wind speed. (And as Dwight will likely point out that is apparent, not true, wind speed. 3) Divide the sheet load by the force that can be generated by your trimmer. A man grinding in against 2000 pounds will need something like a 50. If it is a woman or a youth, probably something like a 60. As Antoine points out, the 40s on his C&C30 are a bit small for his wife. I’m not surprised. After looking at the sizing recommendations on the Anderson and Lewmar sites, I wonder if the sizes recommended are intended for a boat on a casual day sail and not for racing or for heavy weather. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Antoine Rose Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:19 PM To: Barbara L. Hickson; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Needing the brain trust-new winch installation, old hole filling, etc. Happy holidays Barbara, What was confusing with old Barient Winches is that the umber didn't reflect their power ration. When I replaced my old Barient, I found that the equivalent to the 22 was the 40s. That is, when using a 10 inch long handle, if you put a 10 lbs pressure on the handle, the winch will pull 40 times that amount on the line: 400 pounds of tension. So, the first question is what size. For my C&C 30 Mk1, I purchased a pair of Andersen 40 ST. Do do the job well and I don't have to pull that hard. However, they are a bit too hard for my wife and perhaps the next size would have been better for her. For a 33, I would consider the next size above 40. I have a pair of Andersen winches. Very light, similar weight to aluminum winches, but all stainless steel. They got tested well on the ocean and did very well. You said only the Lewmar has a base of 6 5/8". Well, the drum base for the Andersen 46ST is 7 1/8". That should do it. I wouldn't worry about filling the holes. Easy to do and others made good suggestions. The most important things are not the holes but the backing. I've cut disks roughly of the same size as the base in 14" phenolic with heavy washers. Phenolic is a very strong material. Old C&C sheet blocks were made in that material. Now 40 years after, mine still work perfectly. Actually, I think that when I will sell the boat, I'l probably buy new blocks for the boat to keep the old ones. Final suggestion: whatever winch you buy, order a pack of spare spring at the same time. They should always be on board and never dismantle a winch without spare supply of spring. Antoine (C&C 30 Cousin) Le 2013-12-27 à 08:58, Barbara L. Hickson a écrit : Happy holidays, all! Santa brought me new self tailing winches and I need some advice. The PO replaced the original Barient 26s with Barient 28s, moving the 26s to the back to be used for spin sheets. The base diameter of the 28s is 8" and the hole diameter is 6 3/8". I think replacing them with Lewmar EVO 45s is the only way to go: the 45s are the only size whose base at 6 5/8" is big enough to cover the previous hole diameter of 6 3/8". I don't want to leave an ugly ring of "we replaced our winches" left on the coaming but I think after removing the bedding compound and polishing the exposed gelcoat, the area outside the base of the new winches should look pretty good. I have no illusions that it will match exactly. Is my thinking wrong on this? I really don't want to go to the expense and trouble to have anything look like crap. AND I don't think it is worth the expense and trouble to put Lewmar 50s on a 33' boat. That's just crazy. Secondly, the PO did not fill the first bolt holes when he put his new winches on. Now there will be 2 sets of bolt holes to be epoxied. Is this going to be a structural problem for the new winches? I am planning to use an aluminum backing plate for the new ones. I've read on forums of about 4-6 yrs ago that finding the exact same hole pattern was apparently the preferred way to go, and listers from this forum waited over a year to find Barient 28STs on Ebay. In the last 2-4 yrs however, opinions seem to be that hole patterns should not be that much of a consideration. Should I plan on doing more than just epoxying the holes or do I need matting on the underside or should I wait eons for Ebay to produce a pair of Barient 28ST? There is one on there now asking $1500 and it looks like s!@#. Lastly, IMO I think we should be using the size 40 winches. Is there any way we can get away with using these and not sacrifice any structural integrity or have the exposed finish look like crap and see all the epoxy-filled holes? New deck paint is pretty much out of the question; she's in very good shape. Thoughts, advice and recommendations please? Thanks for any help, Barbara Hickson Fellers Flight Risk , 33-1 Charleston, SC _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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