Jerry wrote:
> > > What might have been a few minutes to you, is in fact a week or
> > two
>> for me - building a new server, configuring it (the old configs
>> aren't really useful when the software has progressed over the
>> years), tested it fully, and then migrated all the users and their
>> data. That would, of course, be assuming I had the hardware to
>> host a new server on - which I don't.
>
>Nothing personal; however, is this network a simple "home" one or are
>you maintaining a mail server for a [business|group|organization].
>
>If (1), then this is a great time to acquire those skills and install
>those pesky tools. If (2), then perhaps it is time to call in a
>professional. This job is obviously beyond your capabilities.
>
>Nothing personal; however, this sounds like a text book definition of
>the "Peter
>Principal" (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle>). If you
>are going to run a mail server and hope to run it proficiently, then
>acquiring the skills to do so are paramount to you. There are many
>individuals on several assorted lists that would be glad to help you
>get started acquiring those skills.
Yes, that is very personal and I take it as an insult. It's the very
reason OSS has such a bad reputation in some quarters - this apparent
insistence that you are not competent to do anything unless you can
write code. That IS the inference - that if I'm not capable of
compiling my code from scratch then I shouldn't be running a server.
BS! I never made a single reference to "compiling" anything.
Furthermore, I never said anything about "writing code." You are just
reaching for straws and making things up as you go along. If you spent
as much time managing your system as you apparently do falsifying
statements, you would not be in this predicament.
You made a statement that since I am restricted to using pre-compiled
packages then I'm not fit to be running a server - that's how it
could be paraphrased. So, if I'm not to use a pre-compiled package,
then perhaps you would enlighten me as to how I get from the source
to a binary that will run on the system I have ? The available
binaries for 0.95 and above have dependencies not met on my system.
Since the current code will most likely have dependencies on more
recent other stuff, I expect I'd also have to figure out how to work
round that - and without any ability to understand code (OK, so
that's not *writing* code) it's not easy.
Using an analogy introduced in another message - did you build your
own car, or did you buy one ready made (packaged) by someone else ?
> So please get off the high horse before you fall and hurt yourself.
Just because I don't build the software from source does not mean I
cannot competently configure and run a service. That is exactly what
I did several years ago for this particular server, and it's been
running very nicely until someone actively pulled the plug on it, in
practical terms, **WITHOUT ANY WARNING**.
Again, BS. What would you have liked the ClamAV team to do -- send a
representative to you domicile to personally inform you of the
modification?
No, just make a statement somewhere where it was more reasonably
likely to be seen by those using the software. It would probably have
dealt with the majority of people affected to have put it on the ONE
page referenced in the "your installation is out of date" messages.
Grow up! I use software on several different platforms
and I attempt, within reason, to keep myself abreast of any changes in
them. You were given a warning six months ago regarding EOL. Your OS is
deprecated for over two years. You have done nothing to the latter which
has caused this conundrum with the former. However, you continue to
blame the ClamAV team for the predicament that you now find yourself in.
You sort of answer yourself there. Yes, Sarge has been unsupported
for a couple of years - but it's still running and hasn't been
bricked by the Debian team !
> I'd love to have enough hardware to run up a new server, with all the
latest software, and migrate all the users etc. Unfortunately, due to
internal politics I won't get that until all the other stuff gets
upgraded. I can't say more, but suffice it to say, there are a lot
more services running on OSS than there were when I started here -
but there has been no new hardware provided to run it - I only get
the hand-me-downs when it won't run the latest tech from a certain
well known closed source vendor.
That's politics for you - wish it wasn't the case, but that's how it
is.
I would love to have Bill Gate's money so I could spend my days in
idyllic bliss. I don't, nor do I spend my time bitching about it; which
would only be counter productive.
Where did that come from ? I wasn't bitching about BGs cash. I merely
pointed out that you've stated in no uncertain terms that because I
cannot fix this problem in a few minutes then I'm not fit to
administrate a server. I'll be interested to here how you would have
fixed the problem without compiling the code or using the compatible
binary package that doesn't appear to exist - but then that applied
to any closed source server. If a Windows admin can't fix a problem
by fixing the code they don't have, does that mean they aren't
competent either ? That was your inference.
> Now, I've always thought ClamAV was great - but when shit like this
happens it suddenly gets harder to justify OSS when one of your
vendors does exactly what you accuse the closed source outfits of
doing.
I use FreeBSD myself. I am upgrading to take advantage of the latest
wifi, drivers, etc available in the new version. I guess I could cry
and complain that they _SHOULD_ have back ported those features, or I
could just upgrade and avoid the whole tantrum act entirely. You are
effectively in the same boat.
Have I at any time complained that a feature hasn't been back-ported
to Sarge ? NO I have not. If I need/want features in the newer
software, then I'll upgrade - something I've already done but don't
have the resources at the moment to deploy. Presumably, your old
FreeBSD installation didn't just stop working one morning ? By stop
working, I mean it worked, then the next day it didn't - not having
features in newer software isn't "stopped working".
Out of morbid curiosity, what is you fear of 'compiling' anyway? While
I prefer to use the distros provided by the OS vendor whenever
possible, I realize that, that is not always possible. If you are not
going to be running a Microsoft or equivalent system exclusively, it is
not a bad skill to acquire.
It's not a 'fear' as such - just another of those skills I've not
learned, though it's something I have on my list to do sometime.
Administering Linux boxes is just part of my job - it would be nice
to just concentrate on one area and learn it thoroughly, but I have a
lot and so I tend to select options that minimise effort/return. In
general, packaged software has been OK (though I've had to tweak a
few scripts to make it all hang together). Or put another way, if you
can do it with pre-packaged units, why duplicate the effort if you
don't have to (and don't have the time) ?
Another factor is that I've been trying very hard to NOT have
anything 'non standard' on the servers. That's a matter of making
things as easy as possible should someone else have to pick up the
pieces. Apart from whether I might change jobs, there's always the
proverbial bus to get knocked down with. I have lost friends killed
in accidents, and I've seen what it';s like when others have to pick
up what they were doing from a cold start.
And then of course, there's an element of "which language" ?
It's one thing if I can just hit "make clean ; make" and it all works
- but when it doesn't - then being able to at least read whatever
language is kinda useful. I do have some programming experience (done
Pascal and PLM/51 in the past, mostly stick to shell now) - and yes
I've managed to tweak a few things in the past when I've had to.
Next week I might well download the source and see what happens.
--
Simon Hobson
Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
_______________________________________________
Help us build a comprehensive ClamAV guide: visit http://wiki.clamav.net
http://www.clamav.net/support/ml
