Thomas, Those images for the SHARP PC-5000 boot disk of MS-DOS 2.00 have worked splendidly (at least the .IMD files, DiskImage is all I tried). I did have to change the IMD Settings to Sides Two, Double-step On, and the 250kps to 300kps. I don't fully understand that last setting, but absolutely it was necessary - the IMD image file wouldn't write to disk otherwise.
That did contain the FORMAT.COM (as you mentioned), which I then used to format a few other disks. There is no /? help on that early build of FORMAT. But /s would transfer system files, and /8 would format to a 320KB disk (that was a 320KB bootable disk, but a regular 360KB was bootable as well). Not that I'll need 320KB formatted disks, but just interesting that it can boot from either format. In the disk image share is CE-101FA.jpg that appears to be the front cover of the MS-DOS manual. In a parts listing for this system, I see a line item "CE-100F MS-DOS diskette and manual $25.00" The User Manual that I have only covers some DOS commands (DIR, MKDIR, DEL, and batch commands like IF, FOR, REM), but on the MS-DOS 2.00 disks are some extra things like CREF.COM, KEYBFR.COM. Any chance anyone has this CE-100F manual digitized? It might cover the MS-DOS programs and their arguments. Thanks again Thomas, the drives and boot images are working great! -Steve On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 1:50 PM osi.superboard via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I think I can help you. > I have a PC-5000 disk image of a double-sided 5.25 disk (360kb format) > called CE-101FA on my Google Drive. > > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qo6A3ZzkOHzxh5M5XEjqcKPP2F63Zi9P?usp=sharing > > The images were created with a Greazweasel. For test read twice, but > identical in both cases. > The disk files can be found in the Disk_Image directory. Including > Format and Basic and Macro Assembler and so on. Also various image > formats for creating disks. > > Enjoy > > Thomas > > On 20.10.2024 08:03, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: > > Hi Mike!! Oh I was so nervous taking it apart - I was thinking of > you, > > and worrying about how I'm probably going to end up having to sadly > explain > > why this system doesn't work anymore. But 'lo and behold, I did manage > to > > get it back together! (notes are in my PC-5000 page linked earlier, > which > > is now a bit long winded for a single page - I'll spit it out > eventually). > > > > > > I was trying to go after the CMOS battery, or its equivalent - but wow, > > Sharp made that very difficult. As you'll see in the photos, the > > component side of the mainboard is actually pointed down. Since this is > > still very much a working system, I didn't feel comfortable completely > > disassembling it - you have to get the entire mainboard out. But I got > to > > the vicinity of the area at least. On the positive, my thinking is that > > since the battery is "inverted" from normal and pointing towards the > ground > > - if it does leak, it'll just leak into the plastic base of the system. > > > > With the disk drives, I can now get new software onto the system more > > easily. But, looks like I'll have to give up on making a boot disk > floppy > > for the system. I've added a ton of notes to my PC-5000 page about it. > > > > > > @Fred Cisin - I did manage to digest and follow your DEBUG.COM advise, > and > > it all did work (in getting past "incorrect DOS version"). But when it > > came to the business of actually executing a format, they still did not > > work. As others have suspect, we're just going to need to find that > > original Sharp MS-DOS 2.00 boot disk someday. In poking around the > MS-DOS > > 2.00 source code on github, it actually doesn't have a pre-built > FORMAT.COM > > - instead it has a FORMAT.DOC file that describes notes on what is > expected > > for an OEM vendor to implement to support doing a format. While we did > > finally find a format that allows SYS.COM to work, it's still > mysterious on > > why the (bootable) bubble memory report 6 hidden files, but a SYS'd disk > is > > only reporting 2 hidden files (I think someone else here did cover that, > in > > suggesting some vendors did need extra files to fully implementation > their > > DOS?) So it's been a valiant effort, but I'm content enough just being > > able to move files on/off the system via disks - meanwhile we'll just > hunt > > for that original Sharp MS-DOS 2.00 image, it surely is somewhere "out > > there" eventually. > > (again, notes on this are on my PC-5000 page - but the short of it is: > > - MS-DOS 1.25 FORMAT.COM didn't care about version but didn't even try > to > > actually format (locked up) > > - (Sharp) MS-DOS 2.11 FORMAT.COM was patched, and would show help on > > command line arguments, but wouldn't actually run when given /2 /8 or /S, > > etc. > > - MS-DOS 3.30 FORMAT.COM was patched, but declared the target drive as > > ASSIGNed or SUBSTed and refused to proceed > > > > > > The disk controller interface on this system just isn't "PC Compatible" > > enough. > > > > -SL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 19, 2024 at 12:43 PM Mike Stein <mhs.st...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Great to see my old PC5000 receiving so much loving attention; thanks > >> Steve! > >> > >> FWIW, related to the discussion elsewhere about BBSs, that PC5000 was > >> originally owned by Canada Remote Systems, a smaller Canadian version of > >> Compuserve based here in Toronto, It was a fairly large (by Canadian > >> standards) commercial BBS system of the 80s and 90s, noted primarily for > >> its extensive file collection; I think I still have some of their > >> collection disks on 8" media somewhere. > >> > >> On Sat, Oct 19, 2024 at 10:05 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Some interesting things (on PC-5000): > >>> > >>> - I copied over QMATH, and old command line "parsing-calculator" I did > in > >>> Turbo Pascal decades ago (probably about 1992, so post MSDOS5 at > least), > >>> and it runs on the PC-5000! It's packaged in my "VUC" tools here > (along > >>> with CDIR) voidstar78/VUC4DOS: voidstar Utility Collection for > (MS/DR/PC) > >>> DOS (github.com) <https://github.com/voidstar78/VUC4DOS> > >>> That just speaks well to the PC-5000 really being MS-DOS compatible > (and > >>> that it ran an executable from a much later generation of MS-DOS). > Note > >>> that CDIR itself doesn't run on that MS-DOS 2.00 system (I suspect > >>> anything > >>> that "touches color" won't run, based on trying to run a few other > similar > >>> type things) > >>> > >>> - VER is saying MS-DOS 2.00, same as the startup/bootup note. Though > it > >>> does say the "Command v2.02" shortly after (I suspect as it is loading > the > >>> command.com, or in any case just prior to invoking autoexec.bat) > >>> > >>> - I don't have a "native" DEBUG.COM for 2.X yet (and ended up in a bad > >>> time > >>> that archive.org is majorly down again). And trying to run DEBUG.COM > >>> from > >>> 3.30 disks on the PC-5000 just says "Incorrect DOS version" (was we've > >>> discussed, which as mentioned I'll have to debug the debug.com on > another > >>> system first to patch it) > >>> > >>> I'll dig into the .COM patching later, have some errands this weekend > >>> first. Plus, it turns out I "blew up" my parallel port *again*. > Modern > >>> day, we take it for granted about USB being hot-swappable. Well, > >>> parallel-ports apparently aren't that forgiving - and I keep forgetting > >>> that. I've zapped two parallel cards now while swapping between > parallel > >>> devices. (which I'm making good progress figuring out the "retro > >>> printer" > >>> that will emulator old printers and let us print from old software and > go > >>> straight to a PDF, but still working on it) The LPT devices > themselves > >>> are fine, just I really heard the electrical pop and just the parallel > >>> port > >>> is absolutely dead (everything else seems fine though) > >>> > >>> More to report later, but was excited that "something from the future" > >>> (qmath.exe built almost a decade after the PC-5000 was sold) worked. > >>> > >>> > >>> -SteveL > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2024 at 6:35 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk < > >>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Steve Lewis wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I follow all that (on the DEBUG.COM notes) and appreciate the notes > - > >>>> that > >>>>> will save some time, I look forward to trying a few things out > >>> tomorrow. > >>>>> I forgot to do VER explicitly, but on boot up it is saying MS-DOS > >>> 2.00. > >>>>> And just now, I recalled that on github there is MS-DOS source (and > >>>> bins) - > >>>>> I think Dave's Garage, he recently did a video on building and > booting > >>>>> MS-DOS 4.0 from that source. Maybe I should use this as an excuse > to > >>>> try > >>>>> a 2.0 build? Or least, reading through the FORMAT.ASM, I see all > >>> the > >>>>> DOSVER checking stuff - helps confirm patch addresses, or maybe try > >>> just > >>>>> recompiling that one utility without this check. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Reading through the CONFIG.txt in the MS-DOS 2.0 github repo, it's > >>>>> interesting near the end: (the use of forward slash instead of > >>>> backslash, > >>>>> ha! and just above this, the comments mention /dev/<dev>) > >>>>> > >>>>> "A typical configuration file might look like this: > >>>>> > >>>>> BUFFERS = 10 > >>>>> FILES = 10 > >>>>> DEVICE = /bin/network.sys > >>>>> BREAK = ON > >>>>> SWITCHAR = - > >>>>> SHELL = a:/bin/command.com a:/bin -p" > >>>> GOOD > >>>> So, you should be able to patch FORMAT 2.11 ti work on the DOS version > >>>> that is running. > >>>> > >>>> BUT, whether Format /S or SYS will work remains to be seen. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I have seen cases where the opening banner does not quite match the > >>> stored > >>>> version number, such as 4.01 V 4.00 > >>>> and a conditional jmp needs an exact match. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> So, definitely run VER > >>>> > >>>> and/or > >>>> in debug A(Assemble) > >>>> > >>>> MOV AH,30 > >>>> INT 21 > >>>> INT 3 ; ends program and displays registers > >>>> > >>>> and see what it shows in AX > >>>> (running that in CMD of my Windows 7 gives 0005 (5.00)!) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> One of the early homework assignments when I taught PC Assembly was to > >>> go > >>>> into DEBUG and patch LINK.EXE and EXE2BIN.EXE to eliminate DOD version > >>>> checking. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com > >>>> >
