Reflections are as "redundant" as the disks in a RAID 0 array On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 02:49 James Holton, <jmhol...@lbl.gov> wrote:
> What could possibly go wrong? > > -James Holton > MAD Scientist > > On 6/29/2020 6:17 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote: > > Now can we get rid of all the superfluous disks in our RAID? Or at > > least not replace them when they fail? > > > > On 06/29/2020 06:24 PM, Andreas Förster wrote: > >> I like to think that the reflections I carefully measured at high > >> multiplicity are not redundant, which the dictionary on my computer > >> defines as "not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous" and the > >> American Heritage Dictionary as "exceeding what is necessary or > >> natural; superfluous" and "needlessly repetitive; verbose". > >> > >> Please don't use the term Needless repetitivity in your Table 1. It > >> sends the wrong message. Multiplicity is good. > >> > >> All best. > >> > >> > >> Andreas > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:03 AM James Holton <jmhol...@lbl.gov > >> <mailto:jmhol...@lbl.gov>> wrote: > >> > >> I have found that the use of "redundancy" vs "multiplicity" > >> correlates very well with the speaker's favorite processing > >> software. The Denzo/HKL program scalepack outputs "redundancy", > >> whereas scala/aimless and other more Europe-centric programs output > >> "multiplicity". > >> > >> At least it is not as bad as "intensity", which is so ambiguous > >> as to be almost useless as a word on its own. > >> > >> -James Holton > >> MAD Scientist > >> > >> On 6/24/2020 10:27 AM, Bernhard Rupp wrote: > >>> > >>> > Oh, and some of us prefer the word 'multiplicity' ;-0____ > >>> > >>> Hmmm…maybe not. ‘Multiplicity’ in crystallography is context > >>> sensitive, and not uniquely defined. It can refer to ____ > >>> > >>> 1. the position multiplicity (number of equivalent sites per > >>> unit cell, aka Wyckoff-Multiplicity), the only (!) cif use of > >>> multiplicity____ > >>> 2. the multiplicity of the reflection, which means the > >>> superposition of reflections with the same /d/ (mostly powder > >>> diffraction) ____ > >>> 3. the multiplicity of observations, aka redundancy.____ > >>> > >>> While (a) and (b) are clearly defined, (c) is an arbitrary > >>> experimental number.____ > >>> > >>> How from (a) real space symmetry follows (b) in reciprocal space > >>> (including the epsilon zones, another ‘multiplicity’) is explained > >>> here ____ > >>> > >>> https://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?a14080 > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?a14080__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-s72_nF7$> > > >>> ____ > >>> > >>> and also on page 306 in BMC.____ > >>> > >>> Too much multiplicity might create duplicity… ____ > >>> > >>> Cheers, BR____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> Jon Cooper____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> On 23 Jun 2020 22:04, "Peat, Tom (Manufacturing, Parkville)" > >>> <tom.p...@csiro.au <mailto:tom.p...@csiro.au>> wrote:____ > >>> > >>> I would just like to point out that for those of us who have > >>> worked too many times with P1 or P21 that even 360 degrees will not > >>> give you 'super' anomalous differences. ____ > >>> > >>> I'm not a minimalist when it comes to data- redundancy is a > >>> good thing to have. ____ > >>> > >>> cheers, tom ____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> Tom Peat > >>> Proteins Group > >>> Biomedical Program, CSIRO > >>> 343 Royal Parade > >>> Parkville, VIC, 3052 > >>> +613 9662 7304 > >>> +614 57 539 419 > >>> tom.p...@csiro.au <mailto:tom.p...@csiro.au> ____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > >>> > >>> *From:*CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > >>> <mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>> on behalf of > >>> 00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk > >>> <mailto:00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk> > >>> <00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk > >>> <mailto:00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk>> > >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 24, 2020 1:10 AM > >>> *To:* CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK <mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> > >>> <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK <mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>> > >>> *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] number of frames to get a full > >>> dataset? ____ > >>> > >>> ____ > >>> > >>> Someone told me there is a cubic space group where you can > >>> get away with something like 11 degrees of data. It would be > >>> interesting if that's correct. These minimum ranges for data > >>> collection rely on the crystal being pre-oriented, which is > >>> unheard-of these days, although they can help if someone is nagging > >>> you to get off the beam line or if your diffraction fades quickly. > >>> Going for 180 degrees always makes sense for a well-behaved crystal, > >>> or 360 degrees if you want super anomalous differences. Hope this > >>> helps a bit. ____ > >>> > >>> Jon Cooper____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> On 23 Jun 2020 07:29, Andreas Förster > >>> <andreas.foers...@dectris.com <mailto:andreas.foers...@dectris.com>> > >>> wrote:____ > >>> > >>> Hi Murpholino,____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> in my opinion (*), the question is neither number of > >>> frames nor degrees. The only thing that matters to your crystal is > >>> dose. How many photons does your crystal take before it dies? > >>> Consequently, the question to ask is How best to use photons. Some > >>> people have done exactly that.____ > >>> > >>> https://doi.org/10.1107/S2059798319003528 > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1107/S2059798319003528__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-hiQXkxe$ > >____ > >>> > >>> > >>> All best.____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> Andreas____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> (*) Disclaimer: I benefit when you use PILATUS or EIGER > >>> - but I want you to use them to your advantage.____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 12:04 AM Murpholino Peligro > >>> <murpholi...@gmail.com <mailto:murpholi...@gmail.com>> wrote:____ > >>> > >>> Hi. > >>> Quick question...____ > >>> > >>> I have seen *somewhere* that to get a 'full dataset > >>> we need to collect n frames':____ > >>> > >>> at least 180 frames if symmetry is X____ > >>> > >>> at least 90 frames if symmetry is Y____ > >>> > >>> at least 45 frames if symmetry is Z____ > >>> > >>> Can somebody point where is *somewhere*? ____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> ...also...____ > >>> > >>> what other factors can change n... besides symmetry > >>> and radiation damage?____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> Thanks____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the > >>> following link: > >>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-tcC1DQz$> > > >>> ____ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- ____ > >>> > >>> Andreas Förster, Ph.D.____ > >>> > >>> Application Scientist Crystallography, Area Sales > >>> Manager Asia & Pacific____ > >>> > >>> Phone: +41 56 500 21 00| Direct: +41 56 500 21 76| > >>> Email: andreas.foers...@dectris.com > >>> <mailto:andreas.foers...@dectris.com>____ > >>> > >>> DECTRIS Ltd. | Taefernweg 1 | 5405 Baden-Daettwil | > >>> Switzerland | www.dectris.com > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dectris.com__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-gynYjCs$ > >____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> ____ > >>> > >>> LinkedIn > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/company/5067919__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-kAHivj7$ > >____ > >>> > >>> facebook > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dectris-Ltd/623855944369304__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-rsWJB_s$ > >< > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/DECTRIS_News__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-j3aXyCU$ > >____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> /Confidentiality Note: This message is intended only for > >>> the use of the named recipient(s)/____ > >>> > >>> /and may contain confidential and/or privileged > >>> information. If you are not the intended/____ > >>> > >>> /recipient, please contact the sender and delete the > >>> message. Any unauthorized use of/____ > >>> > >>> /the information contained in this message is > >>> prohibited./____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------ > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following > >>> link: > >>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-tcC1DQz$> > > >>> ____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > >>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-tcC1DQz$> > > >>> ____ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> __ __ > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > >>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-tcC1DQz$> > > >>> ____ > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > >>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > >>> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-tcC1DQz$> > > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > >> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-tcC1DQz$> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > >> > >> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > >> < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-tcC1DQz$ > > > >> > > > > ######################################################################## > > > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > > > > This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a > > mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are > > available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > > This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a > mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are > available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ > ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/
