Making menus accessible isn't enough, but it is a start. My only concern is that this is EA and not a more reputable company. I figure that EA will charge extra for accessibility features. Have a look at the lootbox controversy-if you haven't already heard of it by now.
On 12/26/17, Lenron <[email protected]> wrote: > What EA is doing is pretty awesome. Once we get away to read the game > menus accessibly. I think we will be just about there. I know there is > a long way to go though, because most other main stream Game > Developers really don't focus on accessibility. I mean there are some > games I have and will just play with out the accessibility and do ok > but it doesn't solved the problem of readable menus. I would love to > be able to enjoy titles like Skyrim, fall out 4 and a few others. > > On 12/19/17, john <[email protected]> wrote: >> I don't particularly care if you take me seriously, only that you do your >> homework before spouting. >> Take a look through a few tech news sites if you'd prefer to read >> articles >> on the subject. >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Justin Jones" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:30 >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >> >> Yeah, a more powerful version of BGT would be very nice. I would love >> to see things like 3D sounds and database support. It's early, so >> those are the two things that I can think of off the top of my head. >> >> I wouldn't trust anything the FCC is putting out right now, given what >> they are trying to do to the Internet. Incidentally, it made my day >> when I found out that Ajit Pai was doxxed. >> >> If you want me to take you seriously on the subject of politics John, >> then don't provide links to an agency that is under the control of one >> of the most corrupt presidential administrations in U.S. history. >> >> On 12/19/17, john <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Here's a start for the political aspect. >>> I'm fully aware this is a waver notice. Its expired. Hunt down more info >>> if >>> >>> you really want to have an informed discussion, rather than making >>> blatantly >>> >>> untrue statements that are easily refuted by two minutes work. >>> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-extends-acs-waiver-video-game-software >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Justin Jones" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 18:42 >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>> >>> Okay, it's a start. I'll concede that much; but we have a long way to >>> go and most of my points still stand. >>> >>> On the political front, i.e. enforcing/creating legislation for >>> accessibility-and not only games-we are completely screwed here in the >>> United States-unless we can elect a Democrat-controlled Congress. >>> That, however, is another topic for another time. >>> >>> P.S. Do not confuse a realistic appraisal of a situation with >>> bitterness; you only undermine your own credibility. >>> >>> On 12/18/17, Joshua Tubbs <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Well, hold on a minute. Not fully accessible. No talking menus yet. >>>> Making >>>> plays and the actual gameplay, with vision assists on, is pretty >>>> accessible. >>>> It’s also not fully accessible because there needs to be more things >>>> implemented for the passing game. The workaround that Karen, Ea Sport’s >>>> accessibility lead, came up with isn’t deficient enough, though it is >>>> for >>>> pretty much everyone else but me lol. >>>> >>>> HTH. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Dec 18, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Josh Kennedy <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> EA games has an accessibility department now. Madden nfl is fully >>>>> accessible on xBox within the past 3 or so months. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >>>>> Windows 10 >>>>> >>>>> From: Justin Jones <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 16:37 >>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>>>> Warning, wall of text to follow; apologies in advance. >>>>> >>>>> Amusing; I have a bridge to sell you guys. Your sentimentality does >>>>> not line up with the stark economic reality of game >>>>> development/publishing. >>>>> >>>>> Up until recently, I have been playing mainstream games for over >>>>> thirty years. I lost the rest of my eyesight a couple of years ago and >>>>> my old habits and preferences for gaming were, for obvious reasons, >>>>> barred to me. Over the literal decades of gaming I have done, I have >>>>> never seen one instance of a mainstream publisher/developer take an >>>>> interest in creating games with substantial accessibility features for >>>>> the blind. Not. One. Single. Instance. Any accessibility features, >>>>> i.e. hotkeys and the like, are only incidentally blind-friendly and >>>>> not put in by actual intent of the game designer to cater to us. I am >>>>> not blaming them for this, rather I am pointing out the hard facts of >>>>> life. >>>>> >>>>> If we want to play mainstream games, it is up to us to adapt. In no >>>>> instance, ever, is a developer/publisher going to insert a feature for >>>>> their Triple A title just to satisfy one or two people's desire for >>>>> additional accessibility. With games, they are on tight development >>>>> schedules and only have so much time to devote to a single title >>>>> before they move on and start working on the next game. Harsh, but >>>>> this gets back to the ruthless economics of game development. >>>>> >>>>> Speaking of the ruthlessness of gaming economics, mainstream >>>>> publishers are interested in how they can increase their profitability >>>>> and they are not going to do that by making their games accessible to >>>>> a very small minority of people. This is a fact; you do not have to >>>>> like it, but there it is. Electronic Arts, for instance, is more >>>>> concerned with how they can screw their existing gamer base over with >>>>> lootboxes and micro-transactions. You would have to show me hard >>>>> evidence that they have any interest in us as a community. In other >>>>> words, I am being that guy: links or it didn't happen (and that >>>>> includes my argument from the previous paragraph). >>>>> >>>>> The same goes with any other mainstream publishing company whether it >>>>> be Activision-Blizzard or Sega; the market share just isn't there to >>>>> develop for blind gamers. Indi developers, on the other hand, might be >>>>> an avenue of approach, but they have all they can do just to stay >>>>> afloat. If it comes down to developing a sure-fire winner of a title >>>>> for sighted players or taking a chance on developing something for the >>>>> blind, nine times out of ten, they will do the former and not the >>>>> latter. >>>>> >>>>> Another point I would like to raise is that inclusiveness is just now >>>>> becoming a thing in the mainstream gaming scene, i.e. recognition of >>>>> LBGTQ main characters or strong female protagonists that do not fall >>>>> back on male stereotypes. Yes, it has taken this long and the process >>>>> is in its infancy. If the mainstream gaming community ever decides to >>>>> take us seriously as gamers, it is going to be a very long time >>>>> (decades, if ever). >>>>> >>>>> If we, as blind gamers, want the equivalent of good mainstream games, >>>>> then it is up to us to do it for ourselves-as with everything else >>>>> that we, as blind people, have had to accomplish over the years. >>>>> Therefore, what is the point in trying to provide accessibility >>>>> features to the sighted when they have zero interest in doing so? This >>>>> isn't about tit-for-tat, rather this is confronting reality and not >>>>> trying to construct a fantasy world in which the mainstream gaming >>>>> community take us seriously. >>>>> >>>>> Again, if anyone has any links to hard evidence that shows a genuine >>>>> sea change in mainstream gaming community practices toward blind >>>>> inclusiveness, then feel free to post them here and I will be happy to >>>>> give them a look. Also, and more importantly, I will only take >>>>> attempts at accessibility seriously-from the mainstream gaming >>>>> developer community-when they start announcing attempts at making >>>>> games like Elder Scrolls, World of Warcraft, Dawn of War III, Metroid >>>>> Prime IV, Assassin's Creed or any equivalent titles with blind players >>>>> in mind. >>>>> >>>>> Again, sorry for the wall of text. >>>>> >>>>> On 12/18/17, Damien Sykes <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> > Hi Shaun, >>>>> > Yeah. Much as I hate to admit it, I was diagnosed with autism >>>>> > myself, >>>>> > near >>>>> > the aspergers end. I say I hate to admit it, but only because people >>>>> > judge >>>>> > me harshly for it. I'm not ashamed of it, it's who I am. But I am >>>>> > ashamed of >>>>> > >>>>> > some of my childhood attitudes. Whether that was my autism, or >>>>> > whether >>>>> > >>>>> > I >>>>> > was >>>>> > >>>>> > just full of hatred anger and bitterness, I don't know, and I don't >>>>> > particularly care to go back there neither. That was a very dark >>>>> > time >>>>> > for >>>>> > me. To be honest, I think I was possibly more angry with life than I >>>>> > was >>>>> > with any particular person or group of people. I still struggle with >>>>> > my >>>>> > emotions even today, but on a very different level. >>>>> > Cheers. >>>>> > Damien. >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Shaun Everiss >>>>> > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 8:25 PM >>>>> > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> > Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> > >>>>> > I agree damien. >>>>> > >>>>> > I was like this from 15-20 years then from 26-30, but I am ok now. >>>>> > >>>>> > A lot of things did not pan out and I have accepted though I am >>>>> > still >>>>> > bitter about some of those things. >>>>> > >>>>> > I however can't do anything about them. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On 19/12/2017 9:18 a.m., Damien Sykes wrote: >>>>> >> Hi Justin, >>>>> >> Your below message represents almost the exact bitter and >>>>> >> prejudiced >>>>> >> thoughts of a 14-year-old me. Sighted people probably have a good >>>>> >> thousand >>>>> >> >>>>> >> games to every one of ours. So why should we give a damn? But no. >>>>> >> We >>>>> >> need >>>>> >> >>>>> >> to try and include everyone, otherwise we are not only stooping to >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> level, if indeed they are doing it maliciously, which most don't >>>>> >> seem >>>>> >> to >>>>> >> be. But we are also cutting off our nose to spite our face. Make a >>>>> >> well >>>>> >> known game, make it for the blind only, have a family game night, >>>>> >> fire >>>>> >> it >>>>> >> >>>>> >> up and you'll see what I mean. You're totally isolating yourself >>>>> >> from >>>>> >> everyone else and that's not fair on you, or them. >>>>> >> Recently I've been looking into new languages so that I can start >>>>> >> messing >>>>> >> >>>>> >> around seeing if I can make big grand audio games, but also to see >>>>> >> if >>>>> >> I >>>>> >> can create some online games that I can play with my family. It's >>>>> >> lonely >>>>> >> when your family are playing without you, or when you're playing a >>>>> >> game >>>>> >> solo that is meant to be multiplayer. If anything has shown me how >>>>> >> important this kind of stuff is, it's the value of family. >>>>> >> Cheers. >>>>> >> Damien. >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Jones >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:34 PM >>>>> >> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I am going to have to respectfully disagree; for an audio game, for >>>>> >> people with no visual acuity, visual elements are both a waste of >>>>> >> time >>>>> >> and resources. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> If I were, for example, to try and develop a role-playing game >>>>> >> along >>>>> >> the same lines as Baldur's Gate, production time would be increased >>>>> >> by >>>>> >> at least a factor of two. A visual interface is very different than >>>>> >> an >>>>> >> audio one-especially for role-playing games. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This might sound a little petty (and if it does, I could not care >>>>> >> less), but the mainstream gaming industry has made it very clear >>>>> >> that >>>>> >> accessibility and inclusiveness for blind players is not anything >>>>> >> like >>>>> >> a priority. Why should we, as blind gamers/game developers, make >>>>> >> any >>>>> >> sort of effort to include that group of gamers? Put differently, if >>>>> >> a >>>>> >> sighted person wants to play an audio game, there is nothing >>>>> >> stopping >>>>> >> them from doing so, but it is not our problem if they complain over >>>>> >> the lack of a visual interface/feedback. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> This is my chief complaint with A Hero's Call: Out of Sight Games >>>>> >> is >>>>> >> attempting to prostitute itself to a community that does not give a >>>>> >> damn about an indi developer trying to make a game for both blind >>>>> >> and >>>>> >> sighted people. Unless Out of Sight Games has a hidden art >>>>> >> department >>>>> >> as a part of their team, no sighted person (other than the curious) >>>>> >> will purchase their game. Why would they? They have Skyrim, Diablo >>>>> >> III, Path of Exile, Fallout 4, and so on. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On 12/18/17, Liam Erven <[email protected] >>>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>> I disagree. There are times where having visual feedback is >>>>> >>> important. >>>>> >>> Especially in a game that you’d want to put in schools. >>>>> >>> There should never be a reason not to include visual elements. >>>>> >>> Access >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> all works both ways. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> From: Damien Sykes >>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 11:09 AM >>>>> >>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Hi, >>>>> >>> I don’t know why, but I like the fact that there’s no visual >>>>> >>> element. >>>>> >>> I >>>>> >>> know >>>>> >>> that a UI won’t make or break an audio game, but if there’s no UI >>>>> >>> then >>>>> >>> you >>>>> >>> have no choice but to go fully audio, and it really makes you >>>>> >>> think >>>>> >>> about >>>>> >>> what information needs to be conveyed. Almost like writing your >>>>> >>> own >>>>> >>> mini >>>>> >>> and/or virtual screen reader, I guess. I must say, it was a fun >>>>> >>> challenge >>>>> >>> conceptualising and writing the audio form. >>>>> >>> Cheers. >>>>> >>> Damien. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> From: Liam Erven >>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:52 PM >>>>> >>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> My biggest issues are lack of cross-platform, lack of >>>>> >>> environmental >>>>> >>> effects, >>>>> >>> and no way to do any sort of visual UI. That’s been an issue in >>>>> >>> Brain >>>>> >>> Station unfortunately. >>>>> >>> This is the problem when you get too comfortable with a scripting >>>>> >>> language >>>>> >>> like what was stated earlier. You don’t want to learn anything >>>>> >>> else. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> From: Damien Sykes >>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 9:39 AM >>>>> >>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Hi Justin, >>>>> >>> Indeed there are workarounds for these issues, but they are >>>>> >>> trivial >>>>> >>> compared >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> to some of the bigger limitations. No 3d. No audio effects >>>>> >>> (filtering, >>>>> >>> reverb etc). Not cross-platform. Can't really do anything with >>>>> >>> binary >>>>> >>> data >>>>> >>> unless you do all the calculations and conversions yourself. >>>>> >>> Tantrums >>>>> >>> from >>>>> >>> the garbage collector from time to time, which of course will >>>>> >>> reduce >>>>> >>> performance. No real way of totally resetting the state of >>>>> >>> execution. >>>>> >>> Of >>>>> >>> course you can reset all the variables, but the call stack will >>>>> >>> still >>>>> >>> show a >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> call to reset... >>>>> >>> The binary data and reset state aren't big showstoppers for me. >>>>> >>> Even >>>>> >>> the >>>>> >>> cross platform isn't a big deal for me. I only ever use Windows >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> my >>>>> >>> main >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> work, only ever use Linux for server admin through SSH and I don't >>>>> >>> see >>>>> >>> myself getting a mac or phone anytime soon. But performance is >>>>> >>> definitely >>>>> >>> important in any product, and since I'm seeing more and more games >>>>> >>> make >>>>> >>> use >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> of 3d audio and environmental effects, if I made another game I'd >>>>> >>> want >>>>> >>> to >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> be >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> able to use that. >>>>> >>> Cheers. >>>>> >>> Damien. >>>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >>> From: Justin Jones >>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:11 PM >>>>> >>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> One example of this sort of limitation is that BGT will only allow >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> the reading of string data types from a file and nothing else. For >>>>> >>> example, if you tell BGT to output a series of numbers into a text >>>>> >>> file, it does this just fine, but if you try to read those numbers >>>>> >>> back into a piece of code as integers, i.e. assigning the values >>>>> >>> to >>>>> >>> an >>>>> >>> integer data type, BGT kicks back an error. Of course, there is a >>>>> >>> work-around for this, but you have to use the string conversion >>>>> >>> functions to convert a string data type to an integer data type. >>>>> >>> This >>>>> >>> is an odd limitation, considering that the other programming >>>>> >>> languages >>>>> >>> I've worked with in the past do not have this problem. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Another example of a limitation for BGT is data validation. If you >>>>> >>> were to have the user input a number, there is no built-in >>>>> >>> functionality for the input box function to perform data >>>>> >>> validation. >>>>> >>> Again, there are work-arounds for this, but this ought to have >>>>> >>> been >>>>> >>> something that is a part of the input box function. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> I freely admit that I could be wrong concerning both of these >>>>> >>> examples. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On 12/18/17, Liam Erven <[email protected] >>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> It’s still a scripting language by definition. It’s good for >>>>> >>>> games, >>>>> >>>> but >>>>> >>>> not >>>>> >>>> much else. Also has several limitations which could be >>>>> >>>> problematic. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> From: Josh Kennedy >>>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:36 AM >>>>> >>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Sam tupy’s elaborate survive the wild game was written entirely >>>>> >>>> in >>>>> >>>> bgt. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> From: Justin Jones >>>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 07:31 >>>>> >>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> So long as you understand that BGT isn't a real programming >>>>> >>>> language, >>>>> >>>> as it falls under scripting. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> It's not a bad start though, as it can do plenty of cool things >>>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> also serves as an intro to game programming, but it is only an >>>>> >>>> intro. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> On 12/17/17, Josh Kennedy <[email protected] >>>>> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Try the free bgt toolkit. Free blind game makers toolkit. Just >>>>> >>>>> google >>>>> >>>>> search >>>>> >>>>> bgt blind game makers toolkit. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Marvin Hunkin via Groups.Io >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 20:23 >>>>> >>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> Subject: [blind-gamers] developing accessible games >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi. maybe this is too technical. But do you know of any blind >>>>> >>>>> developers >>>>> >>>>> developing an accessible game framework and also an accessible >>>>> >>>>> diagramming >>>>> >>>>> software. If so, let me know. And also what’s the steps to >>>>> >>>>> develop >>>>> >>>>> an >>>>> >>>>> accessible game say for windows. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Ps: also for like mobile, ios, android, x box, etc. thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Ps: thinking of doing a diploma of interactive gaming from my >>>>> >>>>> school,and >>>>> >>>>> they have like a few subjects, 3d interactive gaming and >>>>> >>>>> designing >>>>> >>>>> 3d >>>>> >>>>> graphics, etc. any one done these type of courses. Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>>> >>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>> >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>> >>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> -- >>>>> >>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>> >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>> >>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> (254) 624-9155 >>>>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>> [email protected] >>> (254) 624-9155 >>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >> [email protected] >> (254) 624-9155 >> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Lenron Brown > Cell: 985-271-2832 > Skype: ron.brown762 > > > > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. [email protected] (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. 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