On Mon, Dec 09, 2024 at 3:05 PM, Alanna Paloma <apal...@amsl.com> wrote:
> Hi Gábor and Warren (AD)*, > > *Warren - As the AD, please review and approve of the updated key word in > Section 4.4: > > Original: > [RFC4814] REQUIRES pseudorandom port numbers, which the authors believe is > a good approximation of the distribution of the source port numbers a NATxy > gateway on the Internet may face with. > > Current: > As described in [RFC4814], pseudorandom port numbers are REQUIRED, which > the authors believe is a good approximation of the distribution of the > source port numbers a NATxy gateway on the Internet may be faced with. > WFM! Thank you! W > See this diff file: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693-auth48diff.html > > Gábor - Thank you for your replies. We have updated as requested. Please > note that we have some follow-up queries. > > But both of them are rather lengthy. Thus, the best title could be simply: > "Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NATxy Gateways" Rationale: This RFC > will be the first one talking about benchmarking of stateleful NAT boxes. > The proposed title expresses the topic clearly and it is concise (it does > not contain anything unnecessary). It should be noted that the current > version is partial: it mentions pseudorandom port numbers but it does not > mention pseudorandom IP addresses. This is not logical. I discussed it with > my co-author, Keiichi Shima and he agrees with the proposed title. Is it > possible the change the title to this version? > > ) As “NATxy” has not appeared in previous RFCs and is defined in the > Abstract, may we further update the title? > > Current: > Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NATxy Gateways > > Perhaps: > Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NAT Gateways > > 8) <!-- [rfced] For clarity, how may we rephrase "it may be computing > efficiently generated by preparing" in the text below? > > Original: > > It may be computing efficiently generated by preparing a random > permutation of the previously enumerated all possible four tuples using > Durstenfeld's random shuffle algorithm [DUST1964]. > > Perhaps: > > Efficient computing may be generated by preparing a random permutation of > the previously enumerated all possible four tuples using Durstenfeld's > random shuffle algorithm [DUST1964]. > > --> > > I am sorry, I do not understand your version. I think that the ambiguity > was caused in the original text by the first word of the sentence: "It". To > that end I would clarify the sentence as follows: New: > Pseudorandom enumeration of all possible four tuples may be computing > efficiently generated by preparing a random permutation of the previously > enumerated all possible four tuples using Durstenfeld's random shuffle > algorithm [DUST1964]. > > ) We have updated the text per your suggestion; however, “may be computing > efficiently generated by…” still reads awkwardly. May we further clarify > the text as follows? > > Perhaps: > Pseudorandom enumeration of all possible four tuples may compute > efficiently by using Durstenfeld’s random shuffle algorithm [DUST1964] to > prepare a random permutation of the previously enumerated all possible four > tuples. > > In Section 6. > > ORIGINAL: The table MUST be complemented with reporting the relevant > parameters of the DUT. If the DUT is a general-purpose computer and some > software NATxy gateway implementation is tested, then the hardware > description SHOULD include: computer type, CPU type, and number of active > CPU cores, memory type, size and speed, network interface card type > (reflecting also the speed), the fact that direct cable connections were > used or the type of the switch used for interconnecting the Tester and the > DUT. > > EDITED: The table MUST be complemented with reporting the relevant > parameters of the DUT. If the DUT is a general-purpose computer and some > software NATxy gateway implementation is tested, then the hardware > description SHOULD include: the computer type, CPU type and number of > active CPU cores, memory type, size and speed, network interface card type > (also reflecting the speed), the fact that direct cable connections were > used, and the type of the switch used for interconnecting the Tester and > the DUT. > > Here the problem is, that the Tester and the DUT are connected either by > direct cables or through a switch. The original text had an "or" but the > edited text has an "and" between the two. I understand that the original > text did not sound well. Could you please rephrase it so that its original > meaning should remain? > > Moreover, I found a mistake that is NOT a results of the editing, but it > was present in the original text, and thus it was definitely my fault. > Could you please correct it? > > ) We have updated the text and reformatted it to a bulleted list to > improve readability. Please let us know if further updates are needed. > > Current: > The table MUST be complemented with reporting the relevant parameters of > the DUT. If the DUT is a general-purpose computer and some software NATxy > gateway implementation is tested, then the hardware description SHOULD > include the following: > > * computer type > > * CPU type > > * number of active CPU cores > > * memory type > > * size and speed > > * network interface card type (also reflecting the speed) > > * direct cable connections or the type of switch used for interconnecting > the Tester and the DUT > > ... > The files have been posted here (please refresh): > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693.xml > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693.txt > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693.html > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693.pdf > > The relevant diff files have been posted here: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693-diff.html (comprehensive diff) > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693-auth48diff.html (AUTH48 > changes) > > Please review the document carefully and contact us with any further > updates you may have. Note that we do not make changes once a document is > published as an RFC. > > We will await approvals from each party listed on the AUTH48 status page > below prior to moving this document forward in the publication process. > > For the AUTH48 status of this document, please see: https://www. > rfc-editor.org/auth48/rfc9693 > > Thank you, > RFC Editor/ap > > On Dec 6, 2024, at 12:43 PM, Dr. Lencse Gábor <len...@sze.hu> wrote: > > Dear RFC Editor, > Please see my answers inline. > On 04/12/2024 00:24, rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org wrote: > > Authors, > > While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve (as necessary) > the following questions, which are also in the XML file. > > 1) <!-- [rfced] As RFC 4814 is mentioned in this document's Abstract and > Introduction, may we remove the reference to it from the title? > > Original: > > Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NATxy Gateways using RFC 4814 > Pseudorandom Port Numbers > > Perhaps: > > Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NATxy Gateways Using Pseudorandom > Port Numbers > > --> > > I can accept it. Moreover, as I was thinking about the title, I noticed > something. Originally, the title reflected the content well: we used a > single IP address pair and pseudorandom port numbers (as recommended by RFC > 4814). Later we introduced the usage of multiple, pseudorandom IP > addresses, too. However, we did not update the title to reflect the change. > To that end, one could use one of the following titles: > "Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NATxy Gateways Using Pseudorandom > Port Numbers and Pseudorandom IP Addresses" or > "Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NATxy Gateways Using Pseudorandom > Port Numbers and IP Addresses" But both of them are rather lengthy. Thus, > the best title could be simply: > "Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NATxy Gateways" Rationale: This RFC > will be the first one talking about benchmarking of stateleful NAT boxes. > The proposed title expresses the topic clearly and it is concise (it does > not contain anything unnecessary). It should be noted that the current > version is partial: it mentions pseudorandom port numbers but it does not > mention pseudorandom IP addresses. This is not logical. I discussed it with > my co-author, Keiichi Shima and he agrees with the proposed title. Is it > possible the change the title to this version? > > 2) <!-- [rfced] Per Section 3.6 of RFC 7322 ("RFC Style Guide"), > abbreviations must be expanded upon first use. To avoid expanding "NAPT" > upon first use here and stacking multiple sets of parentheses, we have > rephrased as follows (because "NAPT" is introduced and expanded later in > this document). Please let us know of any objections. > > Original: > > However, none of them discussed, how to apply [RFC4814] pseudorandom port > numbers, when benchmarking stateful NATxy (NAT44 (also called NAPT) > [RFC3022], NAT64 [RFC6146], and NAT66) gateways. (It should be noted that > stateful NAT66 is not an IETF specification but refers to an IPv6 version > of the stateful NAT44 specification.) > > Current: > > However, none of them discussed how to apply pseudorandom port numbers > from > [RFC4814] when benchmarking stateful NATxy gateways (such as NAT44 > [RFC3022], NAT64 [RFC6146], and NAT66). (It should be noted that stateful > NAT66 is not an IETF specification but refers to an IPv6 version of the > stateful NAT44 specification.) > > --> > > OK. > > 3) <!-- [rfced] In the sentence below, may we clarify "also in the case of > UDP using the same kind of entries as in the case of TCP" as follows? > > Original: > > * Connection: Although UDP itself is a connection-less protocol, stateful > NATxy gateways keep track of their translation mappings in the form of a > "connection" also in the case of UDP using the same kind of entries as in > the case of TCP. > > Perhaps: > > Connection: Although UDP itself is a connectionless protocol, stateful > NATxy gateways keep track of their translation mappings in the form of a > "connection" as well as in the case of UDP using the same kind of entries > as in TCP. > > --> > > I am not a native speaker. If it sounds better, I am OK with it. > > 4) <!-- [rfced] For clarity, may we update "in the order of a few times > ten thousand" to "in the order of a few tens of thousands"? > > Original: > > If it is possible, the size of the source port number range SHOULD be > larger (e.g. in the order of a few times ten thousand), whereas the size of > the destination port number range SHOULD be smaller (may vary from a few to > several hundreds or thousands as needed). > > Perhaps: > > If it is possible, the size of the source port number range SHOULD be > larger (e.g., in the order of a few tens of thousands), whereas the size of > the destination port number range SHOULD be smaller (may vary from a few to > several hundreds or thousands as needed). > > --> > > I am not a native speaker, but I trust in you. > Just for clarity: - If there are 1,000 apples in a container, and we have > a few containers, I would say: We have a few thousands of apples. - If > there are 10,000 apples in a container, and we have a few containers, I > would say: We have a few times 10,000 of apples. (This is the literal > translation of what I would say in Hungarian.) In the latter case, would a > native speaker say: "We have a few tens of thousands of apples."? > > 5) <!-- [rfced] FYI - To improve readability, we have reformatted the text > below to read as a bulleted list. Please let us know any objections. > > Original: > > When multiple IP addresses are used, then the port number ranges should be > even more restricted, as the number of potential network flows is the > product of the size of the source IP address range, the size of the source > port number range, the size of the destination IP address range, and the > size of the destination port number range. > > Current: > > When multiple IP addresses are used, then the port number ranges should be > even more restricted, as the number of potential network flows is the > product of the size of: > > * the source IP address range, > > * the source port number range, > > * the destination IP address range, and > > * the destination port number range. > > --> > > Yes, I like it. I think this formatting helps the understanding. > > 6) <!-- [rfced] How may we clarify "that is throughput" in the text below? > > Original: > > Test phase 1 serves two purposes: > > 1. The connection tracking table of the DUT is filled. It is important, > because its maximum connection establishment rate may be lower than its > maximum frame forwarding rate (that is throughput). > > Perhaps: > > Test phase 1 serves two purposes: > > 1. The connection tracking table of the DUT is filled. This is important > because its maximum connection establishment rate may be lower than its > maximum frame forwarding rate (that is, its throughput). > > --> > > Perfect. > > 7) <!--[rfced] As "REQUIRES" is not a key word per RFCs 2119/8174, may we > rephrase this sentence to use "REQUIRED"? > > Original: > > [RFC4814] REQUIRES pseudorandom port numbers, which the authors believe is > a good approximation of the distribution of the source port numbers a NATxy > gateway on the Internet may face with. > > Perhaps: > > As described in [RFC4814], pseudorandom port numbers are REQUIRED, which > the authors believe is a good approximation of the distribution of the > source port numbers a NATxy gateway on the Internet may face with. > > --> > > Yes, this was my intention. Thank you for the correction. > > 8) <!-- [rfced] For clarity, how may we rephrase "it may be computing > efficiently generated by preparing" in the text below? > > Original: > > It may be computing efficiently generated by preparing a random > permutation of the previously enumerated all possible four tuples using > Durstenfeld's random shuffle algorithm [DUST1964]. > > Perhaps: > > Efficient computing may be generated by preparing a random permutation of > the previously enumerated all possible four tuples using Durstenfeld's > random shuffle algorithm [DUST1964]. > > --> > > I am sorry, I do not understand your version. I think that the ambiguity > was caused in the original text by the first word of the sentence: "It". To > that end I would clarify the sentence as follows: New: > Pseudorandom enumeration of all possible four tuples may be computing > efficiently generated by preparing a random permutation of the previously > enumerated all possible four tuples using Durstenfeld's random shuffle > algorithm [DUST1964]. > > 9) <!-- [rfced] FYI - We have reformatted the text below to read as a > bulleted list to improve readability. Please review and let us know of any > objections. > > Original: > > Procedure: The Initiator sends a specific number of test frames using all > different four tuples at a specific rate through the DUT. The Responder > counts the frames that are successfully translated by the DUT. If the count > of offered frames is equal to the count of received frames, the rate of the > offered stream is raised and the test is rerun. If fewer frames are > received than were transmitted, the rate of the offered stream is reduced > and the test is rerun. > > Current: > > The procedure is as follows: > > * The Initiator sends a specific number of test frames using all different > four tuples at a specific rate through the DUT. > > * The Responder counts the frames that are successfully translated by the > DUT. > > * If the count of offered frames is equal to the count of received frames, > the rate of the offered stream is raised and the test is rerun. > > * If fewer frames are received than were transmitted, the rate of the > offered stream is reduced and the test is rerun. > > --> > > Thank you! I definitely agree with it. > > 10) <!-- [rfced] Please review whether any of the notes in this document > should be in the <aside> element. It is defined as "a container for content > that is semantically less important or tangential to the content that > surrounds it" > (https://authors.ietf.org/en/rfcxml-vocabulary#aside). > --> > > I prefer not using it. > > 11) <!--[rfced] May we clarify the singular/plural usage in this sentence > as follows?? > > Original: > > ...but it is RECOMMENDED to perform measurement series through which the > value of one or more parameter(s) is/are changed to discover how the > various values of the given parameter(s) influence the performance of the > DUT. > > Perhaps: > > ...but it is RECOMMENDED to perform measurement series through which the > value of each parameter is changed to discover how the various values of > the each given parameter influences the performance of the DUT. > > --> > > I disagree with this solution. > There may be several parameters. In a given measurement series, only one > of them changes. In another one, two of them changes. I saw that in the > edited version that "is/are" was replaced by "are". I did not object it in > my previous e-mail, because I thought that it could be better grammatically > than my solution, but I feel that "is/are" fits better to the subjective > ("one or more parameter(s)"). > > 12) <!-- [rfced] FYI - We have added expansions for abbreviations upon > first use per Section 3.6 of RFC 7322 ("RFC Style Guide"). Please review > each expansion in the document carefully to ensure correctness. > > Border Relay (BR) > Mapping of Address and Port using Translation (MAP-T) Datagram Congestion > Control Protocol (DCCP) > Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP) > > --> > > Thank you. > > 13) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the > online Style Guide <https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/ > #inclusive_language> and let us know if any changes are needed. Updates > of this nature typically result in more precise language, which is helpful > for readers. > > a. For example, please consider whether "black" should be updated. > > "Black box testing" should be kept. It is a well-known and widely-used > term. > > b. In addition, please consider whether "tradition" and "traditional" > should be updated for clarity. While the NIST website > <https://www.nist.gov/nist-research-library/ > nist-technical-series-publications-author-instructions#table1> indicates > that this term is potentially biased, it is also ambiguous. > "Tradition" is a subjective term, as it is not the same for everyone. > > --> > > The term "Traditional NAT" was defined by [RFC3022]. > > Thank you. > > RFC Editor/kf/ap > > Once again, thank you very much for your careful editing work! Best > regards, > Gábor Lencse > > On Dec 3, 2024, at 3:23 PM, rfc-edi...@rfc-editor.org wrote: > > *****IMPORTANT***** > > Updated 2024/12/03 > > RFC Author(s): > -------------- > > Instructions for Completing AUTH48 > > Your document has now entered AUTH48. Once it has been reviewed and > approved by you and all coauthors, it will be published as an RFC. 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Please use ‘REPLY ALL’, as all > the parties CCed on this message need to see your approval. > > Files > ----- > > The files are available here: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693.xml > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693.html > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693.pdf > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693.txt > > Diff file of the text: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693-diff.html https://www. > rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693-rfcdiff.html (side by side) > > Diff of the XML: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9693-xmldiff1.html > > Tracking progress > ----------------- > > The details of the AUTH48 status of your document are here: https://www. > rfc-editor.org/auth48/rfc9693 > > Please let us know if you have any questions. > > Thank you for your cooperation, > > RFC Editor > > -------------------------------------- > RFC9693 (draft-ietf-bmwg-benchmarking-stateful-09) > > Title : Benchmarking Methodology for Stateful NATxy Gateways using RFC > 4814 Pseudorandom Port Numbers Author(s) : G. Lencse, K. Shima > WG Chair(s) : Sarah Banks, Giuseppe Fioccola > > Area Director(s) : Warren Kumari, Mahesh Jethanandani > >
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