Agree entirely and well said, Fernando. Michael
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 10:37 Fernando Frediani <fhfredi...@gmail.com> wrote: > If there are not enough incentives already let's create more then. We, as > a community in a bottom up process as responsible for creating them based > on what is right and fair to most people. > > Use the excuse that the broker market is happing is not enough to try > pretend things like leasing is a correct thing. It is not and will never > be, despite the need some may have. It is fundamentally wrong allow assign > addresses to those who can pay more rather than necessarily to those who > justify for them. > > We, as a community can adjust the rules in order to create more incentives > for unused spaces to be returned to ARIN so it can reassign to those who > really justify and will use them to build real Internet, based on fair and > neutral rules not just to speculate and profit from it. > We can have all the basis to support ARIN legally to revoke unused space > that to be returned therefore if it is not in use (being leased for > example) then it must be returned. > > Doesn't matter if that ended up happing here and there. If that is morally > wrong, a distrotion to the system and should not been done then any > necessary policy to support ARIN to revoke addresses where necessary and > reassign to those who really justify should be created for that. > We cannot prentend that is fine just because some a minority still beleive > it should be allowed to profit from something someone doesn't own and that > is in need for others to fulfil its main propose and build Internet. > > Fernando > > On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, 20:12 Matt Harris, <m...@netfire.net> wrote: > >> Matt Harris >> VP OF INFRASTRUCTURE >> >> *Follow us on LinkedIn!* <https://www.linkedin.com/company/netfirecloud/> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/netfirecloud/> >> *matt.har...@netfire.net* <matt.har...@netfire.net> >> *816-256-5446* <816-256-5446> >> *www.netfire.com* <https://www.netfire.com/> >> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 7:15 AM Bill Woodcock <wo...@pch.net> wrote: >> >>> Removing the program, with its criteria and fees, would not stop the >>> practice. I will be the first to admit that, when I was on the ARIN board, >>> I was completely against commercial brokerage of IP addresses, as a matter >>> of principle. I believed that IP addresses, when no longer needed, should >>> be returned to the RIR for redistribution as needed. Like phone numbers, >>> for instance. Now, however, I believe that there is a reasonable market >>> niche for a few brokers, and that ARIN keeping a check on bad behavior in >>> that space is valuable. >>> >>> -Bill >>> >> >> Hey folks, >> I think we're missing a lot here. The incentives to return unused >> resources are extremely small. There is a much greater incentives to sell >> or lease the space. If selling the space outright by transferring it - >> often through a broker - were no longer an option, most organizations would >> simply sit on it or would lease it out, the latter situation is more useful >> to spammers and others who use space on a temporary and not permanent or >> semi-permanent basis, and increased competition from those who cannot sell >> the space would drive prices down for leasing: this is very good for >> spammers and other bad actors who will simply walk away from addresses when >> the lease is up and they are burned by blacklists, and very bad for >> legitimate service providers of all sorts who need space that they intend >> to be decent stewards of. >> >> I'd also love to see IPv4 deprecated and just move to a 100% v6 native >> internet. I've contributed to efforts to do that in what little ways are >> possible, like making sure my customers have IPv6 implemented properly, >> sharing information about it and about various events over the past decade >> or so, etc. But we're still not there, and in reality, we're still not >> close. IPv4 is a necessity, whether we like that fact or not. >> >> So understanding those two points, I don't see why increasing fees on >> facilitators such that it is not a big deal for the largest players, but >> pushes smaller competitors out of the market, benefits anyone really. >> Having increased competition almost always benefits a market as a general >> rule, and $10,000 can be a lot for an organization that is just getting >> started or, that performs this role as a secondary business rather than >> their primary one. So for those reasons, my feeling is that Tom's grievance >> is legitimate, and these sorts of discussions should indeed be discussions >> we have prior to changes to these fee schedules and policies being made. >> >> - mdh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues. >> > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues. > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile
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