Why do I always forget to send from.this damn email On Thu, 1 Sep 2022, 10:25 Ned Strange, <edwardostra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that you don't need to ask 'hard questions' about why trans people > are trans. I'm quite open about my gender and why I'm trans, but I don't > think anything I have said in any way invited 'hard questions' to be posed > about the subject. Sure, I have spoken from a more academic perspective > about what I believe about gender and my own struggles with the subject - > because I believed at that time I wouldn't receive absurd pushback from you > or your ilk. I will not discuss those things again, which is actually quite > sad for me because some of these people are my friends and I want to be > open with my friends. There may be a forum for discussing 'hard questions' > of gender and race - I believe the rest of us unanimously agree that any > agora nomic forum is not it. Open discussion is one thing, but making > strange insinuations about how trans women are actually men or randomly > bringing up biological racial differences and blaming political correctness > out of nowhere is not it, chief. > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, 18:48 Madrid via agora-discussion, < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> Before I get dogpiled for being called a "racist" - different races, in a >> very general way, have different medical needs. >> >> What I mainly wanted to bring up back then was that it puts those in a >> racial minority at a disadvantage when general medical culture seems >> (often >> unintentionally) catered towards a particular racial majority and >> 'political correctness' silences voices that want to bring up that these >> minorities generally have different inborn vulnerabilities than the >> majority. It seems racist to say "darker skinned people need more sunlight >> to be healthy". But it's true. I'm darker skinned myself, I want to know >> these things to get the vitamin D I need! This doesn't only apply to skin >> color, but ultimately, what's more important, political correctness, or >> people's health? >> >> About trans people, I think I'm the only guy making hard questions about >> the phenomenon. I curious about these things that people seem so hushed >> about. Like, for example: >> >> Why are the vast majority of women on Agora, trans? >> >> Stone me, burn me on the stake, I am legitimately curious. >> >> On Wednesday, August 31, 2022, Sarah S. via agora-discussion < >> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:40 AM Sarah S. <sarahestran...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 3:32 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < >> > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: >> > > >> > >> >> > >> On 8/30/2022 9:25 AM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote: >> > >> > On Tue, 2022-08-30 at 18:14 +0200, Madrid via agora-discussion >> wrote: >> > >> >> Its true that I don't care much about upholding ancient tradition. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> It's nomic, a game of change, and I'm very willing to see Spivak >> > >> >> removed. >> > >> >> > >> [snip] >> > >> >> > >> > I probably wouldn't object to a widespread change to singular-they >> if >> > >> > the general view of the playerlist is that that would be >> preferable, >> > >> > but it would be likely to add a little extra confusion for no real >> > >> > benefit (the distinction between singular "e" and plural "they" >> makes >> > >> > it easier to parse what a rule is saying). >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> Just as a minor clarification, I'm not arguing for Spivak per se >> based >> > on >> > >> "ancient tradition" but more along the lines you suggest here, of >> > >> evaluating our community standards continuously but generally >> > >> respectfully. The important point for me is that this is not just an >> > >> isolated quibble over a single instance of language use (and a single >> > >> unfortunate comparison), but rather an inability to reach a >> reasonable >> > >> accommodation with the current community's longstanding/currently- >> > standing >> > >> practices. >> > >> >> > >> That stuff is just exhausting and not fun in any gaming group, beyond >> > any >> > >> historical points or future changes. >> > >> >> > >> -G. >> > >> >> > >> I personally support spivak - any change to referring to players >> always >> > > by the singular 'they' would probably offend me - I'm not a they, I'm >> a >> > > she. E/em pronouns, as something that are generally confined within >> the >> > > game, don't annoy me in the same way that 'they' would and I enjoy our >> > odd >> > > little game pronouns. That said, Agora Is A Nomic and people are free >> to >> > > advocate changing to the use of preferred pronouns if they like - this >> > > doesn't bother me particularly much when Madrid does it. I too find >> them >> > > odd to adapt to (and get them wrong quite often), and blognomic did >> start >> > > with spivak then abolish them many years ago. And yes, I do think >> > > traditions ought to be questioned - a substantial majority of the >> player >> > > base is newer and if they choose to revise something that doesn't work >> > for >> > > them, they should do so. >> > > >> > > What bothers me rather more is Madrid's attitude to trans people and >> > women >> > > expressed on discord, which I think is quite consistently >> > discriminatory. E >> > > has also made remarks about racial differences (deleted by moderator) >> > which >> > > in my view were discriminatory. To be clear, I don't remotely feel >> > > emotionally threatened by Madrid, nor do I feel like e >> > > personally discriminates against or devalues other players including >> > myself >> > > - which is why I don't want to ban em. E is, perhaps unfortunately, >> quite >> > > good at confining these conversations to the abstract. But I do want >> to >> > > make it clear that I think women ought not be needlessly sexualised, >> > trans >> > > people should be accomodated, and ideologies that approach >> 'race-realism' >> > > are pernicious and entirely beyond the pale. These are sentences that >> I >> > > wouldn't think I would have to type to the agora nomic email server of >> > all >> > > places, but I want to make what I think clear. I think it would be >> quite >> > > appropriate for agora as a whole to affirm in the rules that we are a >> > > diverse place and will always welcome anyone from any minority group. >> > This >> > > is the sort of social norm I believe it would be appropriate to >> > crystallise >> > > and enshrine for all time. >> > > >> > >> > >> > Upon reflection I probably shouldn't have sent this email, except >> perhaps >> > the last two sentences. It is adding fuel that certainly didn't need to >> be >> > added. >> > >> >
