"actual dirt". Now there's a concept. Around here we have stretches that
are solid rock.
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}comOn Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 5:49 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > My contractor said they've had the power company try to get them to pay > for poles that were already out of spec, which they aren't allowed to do, > so free pole upgrades! > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> > *Sent: *Tuesday, October 22, 2024 7:30:32 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] ?ADSS? > > It all depends. The wildcard on aerial is the make-ready. Installing > aerial cable is nearly always cheaper than underground, but the make-ready > work can easily flip that around. You can’t attach in violation of NESC > clearances (–well you **can**, but you’re not **allowed**. I don’t want > to get into it, but having seen it happen enough times I can say there are > many circumstances where it would benefit you to install in violation now > and fix it later (or never)). If they just need to trim a drip loop on the > transformer to give you more clearance then it might be only a few hundred > dollars, but a pole replacement starts at 10 grand. I have seen six figure > quotes to replace one pole. I recall a deployment where the elco’s > engineering contractor called for 800 poles out of 1000 to be replaced. > Sometimes it’s their own problem and the make ready is at the Elco’s or > Telco’s expense, but if the pole is otherwise perfectly fine and just needs > more room for your cable then you’re paying for it. Even if it’s someone > else’s expense it still costs you time. > > > > When going into a new market now you have to assess the poles and > generalize or guess at how much make-ready you’ll have to do. You’re > probably not going to take measurements on every pole, but you do a visual > drive-by inspection and a take measurements on a statistical sample. Or > you might know HDD is reliably $x/foot and therefore easier to make plans > around, so maybe you just do that so you don’t have so many surprises. If > you’re in conditions where you can microtrench or vibratory plow then > you’ll probably be happy with the price of that. You just have to make > sure you’re getting an accurate assessment. We had an engineer from down > south claim he could plow most of our deployment, but he was talking about > 18” depth. Some of the managers got really excited about the cost savings, > and I had to burst their bubble by asking the guy about frost heave. He > responded, “Frost….Heave?” Apparently he’d never heard of it. I’m sure > people have heard about Google’s microtrenching in Kentucky some years > back. Apparently they should have used an epoxy backfill to keep the cable > in its groove, and they used normal flowable fill instead and the frost > pushed all their cables out of the road. > > > > Short answer is underground might or might not be cheaper in any given > situation. For reliability of aerial I’ll take strand & lash any day of > the week. A tree branch won’t break the strand. If something does get > broken it’s relatively easy to find it and fix it. Underground may be less > likely to get hit by something, but you may be excavating whenever you have > to fix something. With either one you have to make sure you have the > resources available to maintain it. If you paid a contractor to bury > facilities then make sure you have the ability to redo what they did so you > can make a repair, or that you have a contractor you can summon on short > order. > > > > -Adam > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof > *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2024 3:14 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ?ADSS? > > > > Maybe it's because I'm in the midwest and we have actual dirt. But other > than maybe crossing a river, I've only seen the big companies trench or > bore their backbone fiber, no aerial except some FTTH. > > Is it because they have more money than brains, or do they know something? > > I look at the number of power outages caused by vehicles taking out > utility poles. Add the windstorms and ice storms. Seems like aerial might > be cheaper upfront but more expensive over the long term, and less > reliable. I mean, maybe it's quicker to splice. Or maybe not if you have to > wait for the power company to say it's safe and if they have to set a new > pole. We've never done fiber so I don't know. > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: dmmoff...@gmail.com > Sent: 10/21/2024 1:53:50 PM > To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ?ADSS? > > Truth be told, I’ve never actually done ADSS. I’ve been told by a couple > of different people that it wasn’t worth the trouble. They cited it being > more expensive and more difficult to work with. > > We can do strand and lash pretty fast. > > > > At the end of the day I guess it doesn’t matter. By the time you get > through pole licensing, permits, and make-ready installing the cable is > practically free by comparison. > > > > -Adam > > > > > > > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie > *Sent:* Saturday, October 19, 2024 11:20 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] “ADSS” > > > > I exclusively use ADSS for my aerial plant. Much easier to put up, and you > don't have to deal with strand or lashing. The option for having it in the > power space can be nice as well. The attachment hardware is similar to what > you use for guy wire dead ends, along with what you show above for > straighter spans where you don't need fiber access, it is pretty specific > to the cable size. The hardware is a bit pricey, not too bad though. > > On Saturday, October 19, 2024, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > When I search for ADSS cable I get this type: > > > </mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=192a7b655b7dd5fd&attid=0.0.1&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1> > > > > They attach with hangers that grip a wide area around the cable like > this one: > > > </mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=192a7b655b7dd5fd&attid=0.0.2&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1> > > > > When you say ADSS that’s what I’m picturing. > > That attachment hardware is expensive. The cable itself is expensive. > I’ve never worked with it but everyone says it’s more difficult. You use > it because you can get the fiber count of an OSP cable without having a > strand. Some Elco’s will allow it in the power space. You need installers > qualified to work in the power space, but sometimes people find that > preferable to make ready to make room in the comm space. > > So in my mind ADSS is a specific thing with a specific purpose. I > suspect drop cable predates that stuff and people are applying the term to > drop cable retroactively because most aerial drop cable meets the literal > definition of the words. Usually being the important word there because you > can order service drop cable which isn’t all dielectric and self > supporting. > > > > Get Outlook for iOS > > ________________________________ > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Jan-GAMs < > j.vank...@grnacres.net> > > Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2024 4:31:04 PM > > To: af@af.afmug.com <af@af.afmug.com> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] “ADSS” > > > > What does the manufacturer have to say? > > > > On 10/19/24 08:48, Adam Moffett wrote: > >> There’s something driving me nuts lately. > >> > >> In your minds, does the term ADSS apply to *any* non-conducting, self > >> supporting cable? Or does it apply more specifically to an OSP cable > >> a central strength member and a concentric layer of aramid under the > >> jacket? > >> > >> There’s an entire department at our company which keeps referring to > >> 12F loose tube service drop cable as “ADSS”. I tried explaining that > >> it’s not the same thing, and they’ve argued that it is. My position > >> is that if I order an aerial service drop cable without any metallic > >> components then it meets the literal meaning of “All Dielectric Self > >> Supporting”, but that ADSS refers more narrowly to a specific cable > >> which has different attachment hardware and different installation > >> methods. I’ve further suggested that calling drop cable “ADSS” is > >> going to cause confusion among vendors and contractors if it hasn’t > >> already. > >> > >> Am I the crazy one? > >> > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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