About 70. Regularly hits 100Mbps DL. 20MHz channel. Surprisingly only 3 or 4 SMs worse than 6X MIMO-B downlink.
450m is definitely worth the cost where you have the density. And it's a night/day difference especially when you upgrade from regular ol 450 APs. On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 6:38 PM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote: > Do tell. Number of SM's and throughput for the sector?! > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 5:22 PM George Skorup <gsko...@surfbroadband.com> > wrote: > >> Yes, RackInjetor w/ PDU card. >> >> There are, umm, a *lot* of SMs on that sector which is why it's pulling >> 125-140 watts. And man is that MU-MIMO puttin in work. >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 4:09 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> is that the packetflux interface? >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 4:05 PM George Skorup <gsko...@surfbroadband.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Better put on your rectifier pants >>>> [image: image.png] >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 3:33 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> There is also the power consumption issue with the 3 GHz 450m. Spec >>>>> sheet says 140W typical. That’s a lot, 560 watts for 4 sectors. >>>>> Especially at sites where I only have a 360 watt power supply and 1000 >>>>> watt-hours of batteries. The 5 GHz 450m I think is less than half the >>>>> power consumption. Presumably the difference is the power amps. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Under Part 90 it would have been even more painful to deploy Medusas, >>>>> since we couldn’t even use the higher xmt power. All my 3 GHz 450 APs >>>>> were >>>>> deployed over a year ago. With all the uncertainty over where CBRS was >>>>> going, whether the mobile guys would totally take it away from us, and >>>>> whether we would have to do a forklift upgrade of the Cambium equipment, >>>>> we >>>>> really dialed back deployment the past 1-2 years. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 3:13 PM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What are you replacing? PMP320? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 3:52 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> we are taking the power hit on the 450i for most of our APs for the >>>>> pricebreak. we have 20 some APs to replace in the next month or so, so >>>>> that >>>>> kind of forces that. Im looking forward to there we have the Medusas along >>>>> with the Is to see what the performance differences are >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:58 PM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Both 450i and 450m can run in CBRS. Only the Medusa can go to high >>>>> power. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 2:51 PM, Jason McKemie < >>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What APs are you using 450M, or 450i as well? I'm wondering if the >>>>> 450i can do the same power output. >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Not too many. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A few bugs in the beta code for the AP’s, nothing really a show >>>>> stopper. SM upload rate limit when in NAT mode appears to be broken, but >>>>> works properly in bridge mode. We are seeing AP’s rebooting somewhat >>>>> randomly on the beta code when NOT running in CBRS - i.e. they have the >>>>> beta code loaded but are not switched to CBRS operation yet. I don’t >>>>> think we have seen any crash reboots on the AP’s with beta code that ARE >>>>> running in CBRS mode though. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Grants / SAS / CNMaestro don’t seem to have many issues. Things are >>>>> still a bit klunky and having to deal with CPAS more often that I would >>>>> expect is a nuisance but it’s functional. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 12:48 PM, Josh Luthman < >>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So you're running this CBRS with the open spectrum, right? Have you >>>>> seen any issues in the 2 weeks? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373?entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373?entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373?entry=gmail&source=g> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:45 AM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> 30Mhz at +49dBm versus 20Mhz at +40dBm. Some of the improvement in >>>>> airtime obviously comes from the wider channel size but the bigger change >>>>> was the higher power and quieter spectrum moving everyone into 6x/8x >>>>> modulation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What's the actual TX power in that case before and after? I thought >>>>> the number I had heard for CBRS was 47db EIRP in a 20mhz channel... >>>>> although I have no idea where that number came from, so it could very well >>>>> be wrong . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:26 AM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Way more than 5db, 10dB is more realistic. This is a typical >>>>> customer off a 450m 3.65 CBRS AP running at full power: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <PastedGraphic-1.png> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Even more interesting: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <PastedGraphic-2.png> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This shows frame utilization of the 450m before and after the switch >>>>> to CBRS. The higher power and cleaner spectrum greatly increased the >>>>> modulation of the customers resulting in greatly reduced airtime >>>>> utilization. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It's a 5-6db increase, if I remember correctly, so that could >>>>> certainly be enough to make the difference in a lot of cases. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Of course there's also the fact that half of the people running >>>>> Baicells radios with sectors are probably already running (illegally) at >>>>> that power level anyway... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 7:50 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Is the CBRS power that much higher where a 450 at CBRS power makes up >>>>> for the lack of nLOS capability as compared to LTE on NN? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Obviously LTE at CBRS power would be that much better, but maybe it's >>>>> a good fit where people need just a little more nLOS capability than 450 >>>>> provides and the extra power gets that for them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> *From: *"Matt Mangriotis via AF" <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Cc: *"Matt Mangriotis" <matt.mangrio...@cambiumnetworks.com> >>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:59:25 PM >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE >>>>> >>>>> I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did >>>>> design the 3 GHz 450m with every intention of being able to support a >>>>> transition to LTE (specifically, as a RRH with cnRanger). The intent is >>>>> for >>>>> this device to be a fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got that right >>>>> though, you’ll need new CPE devices and a BBU for each sector. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet… right >>>>> now, we’re focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and High Gain Cat >>>>> 6 >>>>> CPE devices out in August! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite on >>>>> par with some of the things that LTE brings to the table (regarding range >>>>> and the ability to maintain the downlink). However, with the increased >>>>> power limits of CBRS, the 450m does an admirable job. In fact, in >>>>> comparing >>>>> equipment cost and performance, I would suggest that the 450 platform >>>>> outperforms anything out there. That is, it’s less expensive to get >>>>> bandwidth where it needs to be (at a higher rate, and to more customers). >>>>> If the customer density can support the cost of cnMedusa, you’re going to >>>>> be better off from total cost of ownership (both CapEx and OpEx) >>>>> perspective. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi dish >>>>> integrated antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS CPE equipment (most >>>>> of the high gain/high power LTE stuff I see is only going to be 23 dBm Tx, >>>>> plus 15 dBi antenna). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There are several customers out there that have done these >>>>> comparisons… hopefully, they can chime in. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 7:06 PM >>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You should probably talk to someone at Cambium, unless someone here >>>>> has already done that. There was talk 1-2 years ago about 450m is >>>>> software >>>>> defined so maybe they could use it as a remote radio head with their >>>>> cnRanger LTE BaseBand Unit (BBU). It has been pretty quiet since then, >>>>> but >>>>> I haven’t been able to make it to the shows. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Without an update directly from the horse’s mouth like Matt at >>>>> Cambium, or some kind of announcement, I wouldn’t hold my breath. Back in >>>>> 2018 it was in the realm of “it would be nice”. That’s pretty tentative. >>>>> Plus you’d still have to buy the BBU and new CPE, so it doesn’t sound like >>>>> a huge savings anyway, still 2/3 of a forklift upgrade. I mean, if it >>>>> turned out that the 3 GHz cnRanger RRH was literally a 450m, that would >>>>> probably be the best case, but how likely do you think that is? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This is just my personal speculation, if it’s an important part of a >>>>> decision you’re making now, you probably need to get hold of your Cambium >>>>> regional sales manager, or the 450 or cnRanger product manager. If you’re >>>>> going to WISPAmerica, you can probably do it there. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 6:03 PM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So the 450M is supposed to be LTE upgradable? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:45 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Something aboit the medusa top can be used with cnranger potentially >>>>> with a fiber run and a software update >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:38 PM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> In my opinion, 450 is better than Baicells or Telrad LTE at everything >>>>> except NLOS performance. >>>>> >>>>> ....Except that NLOS performance is so useful that one can be tempted >>>>> to ignore all of the other features of the 450. I do understand that >>>>> tradeoff because I've had to make it myself. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2/24/2020 4:30 PM, David Williamson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> 450 3.65Ghz vs. Baicells 3.65Ghz LTE = no comparison. All but one of >>>>> the 450 APs are already removed from our network. I am just trying to >>>>> determine if the SMs will be usable on Cambium LTE once they roll it out, >>>>> or if it will require a completely different SM. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On >>>>> Behalf Of *Jason McKemie >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 4:28 PM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why are you getting rid of 3.65 Cambium in favor of LTE? >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, February 24, 2020, David Williamson < >>>>> dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Will the Cambium 3.65 LTE have a completely new SM or will it use the >>>>> existing 450SM's? Trying to determine if I should keep our 450SM's or >>>>> just >>>>> go ahead and sell them to one of our secondary market distributors along >>>>> with our 450 AP's. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> David Williamson >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:57 PM >>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE >>>>> >>>>> I think I heard next quarter for the 3.5. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/24/2020 1:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote: >>>>> > 3.5 isn’t available yet. >>>>> > >>>>> > I believe that 2.5 can be purchased. >>>>> > >>>>> > Jeff Broadwick >>>>> > CTIconnect >>>>> > 312-205-2519 Office >>>>> > 574-220-7826 Cell >>>>> > jbroadw...@cticonnect.com >>>>> > >>>>> >> On Feb 24, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Avatar Davis <acd...@mail.harvard.edu> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Does anyone have experience with Cambium LTE? I am highly >>>>> dissatisfied with my current manufacturer and was wondering if anyone had >>>>> experience using/demoing their product line. Cambium products seem >>>>> consistently good in my experience. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- >>>>> >> AF mailing list >>>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> <https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280372524&sdata=sDEJMwg%2FrUeE9YW6GqIDR1XzERRWkE%2F6XePPnWoPmRg%3D&reserved=0> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> <https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280382518&sdata=pP5xMGSatWmczFjAPjC1wEXnNEcBOceklsDEIeHxs6c%3D&reserved=0> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> <https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280382518&sdata=pP5xMGSatWmczFjAPjC1wEXnNEcBOceklsDEIeHxs6c%3D&reserved=0> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> <https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280392515&sdata=%2BbZTwYPdzPsYWDRGoWDCC16Kx5oRKh7VKuFLS8xZ%2Bek%3D&reserved=0> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> <https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280392515&sdata=%2BbZTwYPdzPsYWDRGoWDCC16Kx5oRKh7VKuFLS8xZ%2Bek%3D&reserved=0> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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