04.08.2024 03:18:37 kalona.ayeli...@fastmail.us:
I'm not a troll; frustrated, perhaps. I just don't understand this culture. I
don't think the issue lies with LLMs, but rather with an unwillingness to
cooperate unless there's payment involved. I've never encountered an
open-source community quite like this. Creating a separate mailing list to
avoid answering questions is, to say the least, unusual. I suppose it can be
seen as a safe zone for those who prefer not to assist newcomers. To me, it
feels elitist.
LLMs: others already answered a lot, and I think I made my point clear enough
already.
Payment: I think you got this wrong. It's not about the money, it's about
effort. Expecting effort from others is something different than showing effort
from yourself. People will likely help you if you show effort in your questions
and your work (see many examples on this mailing list). Copy-pasting LLM
content without any rework and validation is not showing effort, it's just
expecting others to invest their time reading and answering.
You can expect effort from others by paying money, that's how companies work.
There is a reasonable amount of bounties in the plan 9 community, from smaller
lower-priced projects to larger projects.
Elitist new mailing list: I understand this feeling. I heard of this thing the
first time and it gives another Super Secret Society of Selected Plan 9 People
vibes we got from p9f in the beginning. This vibe got lost when p9f started
doing their thing and we built some trust. I just hope that (1) they don't
destroy this trust, (2) they actively search the community for selected mailing
list members to invite so it can grow somewhat naturally without keeping that
SSSoSP9P feel, (3) the group will open at some point or at least become
publicly readable. Since the member board of p9f is quite good (people from
basically all relevant communities) I have some hope.
What I've learned is that there's a significant cultural gap for newcomers,
with an unspoken social contract and various hidden challenges.
Yes, that could be true. Plan 9 is not a beginner friendly system and users are
expected to learn a lot, by reading the papers, the manuals, sometimes reading
the source. Ideally (and sometimes required) by using the software. Then you
can ask real questions, discuss real problems, give real answers. I don't think
this is an issue within the community, see many other threads.
It's also highly recommended that you follow along other threads and learn how
people treat each other and how they talk to each other. It's very common in
(online) communities to just lurk until you feel the moment.
I do think that we have some trolls, probably more than in other communities,
at least based on their sizes. That's probably also because of how plan 9 works
and what it reflects in this modern world (we don't follow modern trends).
I'm simply seeking a friendly Plan 9 group where people genuinely enjoy helping
newcomers.
The friendliest that I know is the 9fans discord. There's rarely heavy
discussion going on, only people taking about general topics and people sharing
their experiences and work and others encouraging each other. You might want to
give this a try.
I see some people get treated well and others are treated poorly. If someone asks a
simple question, you give the person a pass. If someone asks a hard question, then you
treat the person badly. The lesson there is "Don't ask hard questions." That is
how I view it. If there are better Plan 9 groups out there, then I'd like to join that
group.
Hard questions require more work to ask. It's quite common to collect your
thoughts, gather lots of information, build knowledge and test things out
before asking the question. Depending on the topic that can take a day or a
week, sometimes more. Oftentimes you have to ask some smaller simple questions
on that way.
Simple questions sometimes tend to scream that the one who asked didn't read
the manuals/docs. That's often a waste of time for the ones who would consider
answering. In some cases I don't answer because I know there are people who
know more than me about that topic.
sirjofri
