Generally speaking - and I am speaking here very much as a novice on LaTeX and without any knowledge of Armenian one nearly always does better to decompose and normalise all UTF8 texts , then work on them and then only recompose. And I think here this approach would have worked out fine .
Peter Sent from my phone. Please forgive misspellings and weird “corrections” > On 1 May 2022, at 19:13, Zdenek Wagner <zdenek.wag...@gmail.com> wrote: > > շնորհակալություն – thank you for confirmation. I believe that there > are people who know how to fix it. > > Zdeněk Wagner > http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml > > ne 1. 5. 2022 v 19:06 odesílatel DALALYAN Arnak > <arnak.dalal...@ensae.fr> napsal: >> >> Dear All, >> >> I confirm that there are two correct uppercase versions of և, the reformed >> spelling is ԵՎ, whereas the classical spelling is ԵՒ. Note that it has >> nothing to do with eastern or western Armenians, both versions of Armenian >> may use both versions of spelling. But the official language in Armenia is >> the eastern Armenian and the official spelling is the reformed one. >> Therefore, I believe a good way of operating for the uppercase command would >> be to output ԵՎ in the default regime, but to have an option "classical" for >> outputting ԵՒ if >> that option is activated. >> >> Just to dive a bit deeper in this topic, it is true that և was originally a >> ligature but now it is a full letter in the reformed spelling. >> >> The aim of my response was to confirm what was already more or less >> mentioned in Zdanek's messages. But I fear I can't help with fixing what >> latex is doing now. >> >> Best regards, >> Arnak >> ________________________________________ >> From: Jonathan Kew [jfkth...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2022 2:10 PM >> To: XeTeX (Unicode-based TeX) discussion.; Zdenek Wagner >> Cc: serguei.dach...@math.univ-bpclermont.fr; DALALYAN Arnak; >> vakop...@yahoo.com >> Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Uppercase in Armenian >> >> Hi Zdeněk, >> >> Checking the Unicode character database[1], U+0587 is listed as having a >> *compatibility* decomposition to <0565,0582> (not 0587): >> >> 0587;ARMENIAN SMALL LIGATURE ECH YIWN;Ll;0;L;<compat> 0565 0582;;;;N;;;;; >> >> Likewise, the SpecialCasing.txt file[2] that defines case mappings other >> than simple 1:1 substitutions shows the same decomposition for the >> uppercase form: >> >> 0587; 0587; 0535 0582; 0535 0552; # ARMENIAN SMALL LIGATURE ECH YIWN >> >> So if I understand correctly, what \text_uppercase:n is doing is simply >> implementing what the Unicode standard defines. >> >> If this isn't the appropriate behavior, at least for some locales, I >> believe that will need custom programming at some level, but I don't >> know enough about it to get into any details. >> >> As for whether xelatex (or other engines) form a ligature from one (or >> other) of the decomposed sequences, that would be entirely in the hands >> of the font developer. I guess such ligatures are not implemented widely >> (if at all). >> >> JK >> >> [1] https://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/UnicodeData.txt >> [2] https://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/SpecialCasing.txt >> >>> On 01/05/2022 12:50, Zdenek Wagner wrote: >>> Hi David, >>> >>> when trying to explain it in a greater detail I found that the situation >>> is even more complex. As I wrote, I follow Elena Yerevan on youtube and >>> facebook so all what I know, I know from her videos, from her name >>> written in both alphabets, from Wikipedia and from >>> https://omniglot.com/writing/armenian.htm >>> <https://omniglot.com/writing/armenian.htm> which means that I know >>> generally nothing. We need clarification from people who know Armenian >>> (հայերէն and/or հայերեն), therefore I am sending Cc to Arthur and the >>> authors of te ArmTeX project (hopefully at least one of the addresses >>> still exists). >>> >>> I will start with the typical use case. The title of a chapter in the >>> book class is written in lowercase and displayed that way in the chapter >>> title as well as in the table of contents but appears in uppercase in >>> the running head. This is why it should work. >>> >>> The case of ligatures is different. My fonts have not only ff, fl, and >>> fi ligatures but even ffi and ffl. If I find a word "difficult" on a web >>> using a serif font, I see the ffi ligature but the source shows that it >>> has the individual characters f, f, i and the ligature was created by >>> the shaping engine. If I copy it and paste into a text editor such as >>> vim or notepad, I will get the three characters. If I use it as a TeX >>> source and typeset it withComputer Modern or Latin Modern, I will get >>> the ffi ligature and \uppercase will work. If I copy U+0587 from a web >>> page and copy it to a text editor, I will get U+0587. I tried both >>> U+0565 U+0582 (եւ) and U+0565 U+057E (եվ) but non of them form the >>> U+0587 (և) ligature in XeLaTeX. I did not understand why the ligature is >>> considered ECH and YIWN but it seems that it is more historical and >>> bound to the shape. If I understand it well, sun is pronounced in >>> Armenian as "arew" but արև (U+0561 U+0580 U+0587) is the Eastern >>> spelling but արեւ (U+0561 U+0580 U+0565 U+0582) is the classical >>> spelling (as given in Wictionary) and probably also in the Western >>> variant. As you can see on Omniglot, the Armenian names of >>> Eastern/Western Armenian start with "arew" with these two spellings. >>> Even "hayeren" (Armenian) has different spelling in the Eastern/Western >>> variants (I have included both at the beginning of this mail). Having >>> found the informatin on variants I saw that polyglossia supports >>> variant=western. I tried to specify variant=eastern but it did not help. >>> If you look at ot6enc.def, it defines uppercase variants at the end of >>> the file where the uppercase version of \armew is \Arm@yechvev which is >>> \Armyech\Armvev. I cannot try because I do not know the transliteration >>> but just from the names of the characters it seems to me that it works >>> correctly while \text_uppercase:n does not. It should know that U+0587 >>> shiould be decomposed to U+0565 U+057E (not U+0582) and then uppercase >>> it to U+0535 U+054E (not U+0552), at least for the Eastern variant. I am >>> not sure whether there are other issues and where exactly to fix it. >>> >>> Zdeněk Wagner >>> http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml >>> <http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml> >>> >
