շնորհակալություն – thank you for confirmation. I believe that there are people who know how to fix it.
Zdeněk Wagner http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml ne 1. 5. 2022 v 19:06 odesílatel DALALYAN Arnak <arnak.dalal...@ensae.fr> napsal: > > Dear All, > > I confirm that there are two correct uppercase versions of և, the reformed > spelling is ԵՎ, whereas the classical spelling is ԵՒ. Note that it has > nothing to do with eastern or western Armenians, both versions of Armenian > may use both versions of spelling. But the official language in Armenia is > the eastern Armenian and the official spelling is the reformed one. > Therefore, I believe a good way of operating for the uppercase command would > be to output ԵՎ in the default regime, but to have an option "classical" for > outputting ԵՒ if > that option is activated. > > Just to dive a bit deeper in this topic, it is true that և was originally a > ligature but now it is a full letter in the reformed spelling. > > The aim of my response was to confirm what was already more or less mentioned > in Zdanek's messages. But I fear I can't help with fixing what latex is doing > now. > > Best regards, > Arnak > ________________________________________ > From: Jonathan Kew [jfkth...@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2022 2:10 PM > To: XeTeX (Unicode-based TeX) discussion.; Zdenek Wagner > Cc: serguei.dach...@math.univ-bpclermont.fr; DALALYAN Arnak; > vakop...@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Uppercase in Armenian > > Hi Zdeněk, > > Checking the Unicode character database[1], U+0587 is listed as having a > *compatibility* decomposition to <0565,0582> (not 0587): > > 0587;ARMENIAN SMALL LIGATURE ECH YIWN;Ll;0;L;<compat> 0565 0582;;;;N;;;;; > > Likewise, the SpecialCasing.txt file[2] that defines case mappings other > than simple 1:1 substitutions shows the same decomposition for the > uppercase form: > > 0587; 0587; 0535 0582; 0535 0552; # ARMENIAN SMALL LIGATURE ECH YIWN > > So if I understand correctly, what \text_uppercase:n is doing is simply > implementing what the Unicode standard defines. > > If this isn't the appropriate behavior, at least for some locales, I > believe that will need custom programming at some level, but I don't > know enough about it to get into any details. > > As for whether xelatex (or other engines) form a ligature from one (or > other) of the decomposed sequences, that would be entirely in the hands > of the font developer. I guess such ligatures are not implemented widely > (if at all). > > JK > > [1] https://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/UnicodeData.txt > [2] https://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/SpecialCasing.txt > > On 01/05/2022 12:50, Zdenek Wagner wrote: > > Hi David, > > > > when trying to explain it in a greater detail I found that the situation > > is even more complex. As I wrote, I follow Elena Yerevan on youtube and > > facebook so all what I know, I know from her videos, from her name > > written in both alphabets, from Wikipedia and from > > https://omniglot.com/writing/armenian.htm > > <https://omniglot.com/writing/armenian.htm> which means that I know > > generally nothing. We need clarification from people who know Armenian > > (հայերէն and/or հայերեն), therefore I am sending Cc to Arthur and the > > authors of te ArmTeX project (hopefully at least one of the addresses > > still exists). > > > > I will start with the typical use case. The title of a chapter in the > > book class is written in lowercase and displayed that way in the chapter > > title as well as in the table of contents but appears in uppercase in > > the running head. This is why it should work. > > > > The case of ligatures is different. My fonts have not only ff, fl, and > > fi ligatures but even ffi and ffl. If I find a word "difficult" on a web > > using a serif font, I see the ffi ligature but the source shows that it > > has the individual characters f, f, i and the ligature was created by > > the shaping engine. If I copy it and paste into a text editor such as > > vim or notepad, I will get the three characters. If I use it as a TeX > > source and typeset it withComputer Modern or Latin Modern, I will get > > the ffi ligature and \uppercase will work. If I copy U+0587 from a web > > page and copy it to a text editor, I will get U+0587. I tried both > > U+0565 U+0582 (եւ) and U+0565 U+057E (եվ) but non of them form the > > U+0587 (և) ligature in XeLaTeX. I did not understand why the ligature is > > considered ECH and YIWN but it seems that it is more historical and > > bound to the shape. If I understand it well, sun is pronounced in > > Armenian as "arew" but արև (U+0561 U+0580 U+0587) is the Eastern > > spelling but արեւ (U+0561 U+0580 U+0565 U+0582) is the classical > > spelling (as given in Wictionary) and probably also in the Western > > variant. As you can see on Omniglot, the Armenian names of > > Eastern/Western Armenian start with "arew" with these two spellings. > > Even "hayeren" (Armenian) has different spelling in the Eastern/Western > > variants (I have included both at the beginning of this mail). Having > > found the informatin on variants I saw that polyglossia supports > > variant=western. I tried to specify variant=eastern but it did not help. > > If you look at ot6enc.def, it defines uppercase variants at the end of > > the file where the uppercase version of \armew is \Arm@yechvev which is > > \Armyech\Armvev. I cannot try because I do not know the transliteration > > but just from the names of the characters it seems to me that it works > > correctly while \text_uppercase:n does not. It should know that U+0587 > > shiould be decomposed to U+0565 U+057E (not U+0582) and then uppercase > > it to U+0535 U+054E (not U+0552), at least for the Eastern variant. I am > > not sure whether there are other issues and where exactly to fix it. > > > > Zdeněk Wagner > > http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml > > <http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml> > >
