Yes, structured data are far from perfect. I am sorry about it because I know
their potential but they need to grow on a difficult soil and this slows down.
We expected that, unfortunately. You can't just use them top-down, they need a
bottom-up approach but we lack the right mentality of engaged users to make it
grow.
If you want to change and improve something right now with metadata, try
galleries before categories. They are quite useless at the moment, I see some
users are updating them but they are really poor. It was very frequent to finf
low resolution files still there, they are not standardized as well. Since they
have limited structural role, working on that should be easier.
Il lunedì 18 maggio 2020, 17:20:31 CEST, Phil Nash via Wikimedia-l
<[email protected]> ha scritto:
The search has to be done before the category structure is addressed, even if
that needs to be done. How else would you compartmentalise, what 32 million
images?
And structured data has to be fixed before either. The reason is that
structured data does not have unique names, and I don't think people relate to
the Q numbers as well as names of things they know already. It's actually very
much worse than that because these automated "Depicts" suggestions do not
appear to know about Commons categories such that they suggest an obvious
statement.
We all know it's maybe broken, but I don't see this as a fix, even if we run
two systems in parallel until the structured data is (a) mature (b) sensible
and (c) throughly reliable.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gnangarra <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]>
Sent: 18/05/2020 15:53:35
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons
________________________________________________________________________________
I think we could start to make the category structure obsolete and focus
on structured data, there's already bots running basic structured data that
could be ramped up. and Having Wikidata game(
https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-game/) thats instead focused on whats in
a file & its description, that would capture more structured data including
licensing. It'd help teach people more about including structured data
62million files is a lot to process so it'll take time but we can run
competitions like 1lib1ref, encourage affiliates to focus on doing Commons
structured data game as outreach events, this will teach people about
licensing, and about what makes a good photograph because everyone knows a
30px by 30px photo is crap we can have structured data items less than
100,200,500px on the long edge.
Next step would be to look at the search function, add in an advance option
with a few optional fields to fill in that searches the structured data.
The advance search option could then sort by pixel size giving the biggest
images first.
On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 22:28, Samuel Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
> Commons needs iterative workflows that tag problems and modify what reuses
> / transfusions are supported, rather than making everything a crude
> delete/keep decision. Else it will always struggle w scaling to these
> uses.
>
> 🌍🌏🌎🌑
>
> On Mon., May 18, 2020, 9:48 a.m. Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l, <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > in the past "99% unproblematic" was true, because most of the things
> were
> > obvious and standard (panorama of towns, ancient portraits), it's not
> > nowadays.
> > You can upload tons of unproblematic pictures because they are easy to
> > find, but you don't need them really. So they mostly clutter the
> workflow.
> > There are a lot of images of kittens that we can upload, good luck
> > categorizing them. Of course, you can switch to very specific projects
> like
> > "documenting all small rivers" but the core issue are also high-quality
> > upload. And everything is potentially problematic there: the right of an
> > important person to privacy, the right of the manufacturer of an
> > instruments, how creative is the lighting of an object? if I upload an
> > image of a town it's probably a very nice one, taken by a competent
> > photographer who clearly show them on line as well. You are in a
> dimension
> > where you need to study, learn, ask around, find a balance. Instead we
> have
> > people acting randomly and superficially, because they do not care about
> > the long-term effect of their actions.
> >
> > This impacts the maintenance of course, because very specific issues
> > requires sophisticated categories, processes and metadata. The effort
> there
> > is quite high, you are always the first one to arrive. the first one to
> > clean up,the first one to explain to a third party. If you add on that
> more
> > unnecessary stress than required, people reduce this job as much as they
> > can as a necessary balance. But that job has an important effect in the
> > overall maintenance, so at a certain point you start to see the effect
> when
> > it is not there.
> >
> > It's not a big surprise, we tried to explain this fact for years, but the
> > community is designed to ignore these aspects and encourage other work
> > attitudes. It's just like that.
> >
> >
> > Il lunedì 18 maggio 2020, 15:28:51 CEST, Yaroslav Blanter <
> > [email protected]> ha scritto:
> >
> > To be fair, in most cases to use Commons for uploading files is totally
> > unproblematic as soon as one has basic understanding of copyright. I am
> > pretty sure 99% of my uploads can not be deleted (I had my files
> > mass-nominated for deletion, once with the claim they are not mine, and
> > once with the claim they are holiday photos and out of scope, but both
> > cases admins were reasonably enough to speedy close the nominations). Of
> > course there are always potentially problematic cases, for example I can
> > imagine for one could start requiring "publication" dates for painting,
> > which is copyright paranoia but some people take it seriously etc. But if
> > one uploads something sufficiently far from the grey area it normally
> > should be ok.
> >
> > (I am still a Commons admin, but I reduced my admin activity to a minimum
> > and I am not planning to increase the activity level).
> >
> > Best
> > Yaroslav
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:12 PM Ziko van Dijk <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Alessandro,
> > Thank you for your post and its insight. I recognized the same with me: I
> > only make use of Wikimedia Commons in lessons if I have enough time.
> Also I
> > would introduce it only to students with a solid knowledge of English.
> >
> >
> > Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <[email protected]>
> > schrieb am Mo. 18. Mai 2020 um 13:08:
> >
> > > In the end, it's more like inducing order from other projects than
> caring
> > > about the order on Commons because there clearly can't be with people
> > > acting the way they do.
> >
> >
> > This is a great observation! And this phenomenon contributes to the
> > on-going chaos, to the work-around-culture you need to adapt to if you
> want
> > to make use of Wikimedia Commons. :-(
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > They are also not caring for it: if you spend your time starting
> > > unnecessary deletion procedures instead of cleaning up categories or
> > > description, you obviously have your priority, so we also have ours.
> > >
> >
> > > About the main page, we need to focus more on media files IMHO, and of
> > > course search is complicated but I am sure metadata can improve it.
> > >
> > > A.
> > > Il lunedì 18 maggio 2020, 11:33:46 CEST, Robert Myers <
> > > [email protected]> ha scritto:
> > >
> > > Well some people do, but it is when they get trolled by other
> > contributors
> > > and/or overzealous Admin comes along and deletes the file. They quickly
> > > lose interest, in turn telling other people not to bother.
> > >
> > > I just had another lot of photographs tagged by a troll, in which an
> > Admin
> > > deletes (
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=File:Rachel_Priest_after_the_Sydney_Thunder_vs_Adelaide_Strikers_WBBL_game_at_Robertson_Oval.jpg
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=File:Abandoned_farm_house_in_Hillgrove_01.jpg
> > > ).
> > > These have been on Commons for two + years, using the same camera gear
> I
> > > have used over the years. If it is enough for me to give up on the
> > project,
> > > it would be the same for any other user but for a newbie it is
> something
> > > that would make me run for the hills (depart quickly as possible)!
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <
> [email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anecdotally, it seems people sometimes don't upload their photos to
> > > > Commons because they don't realize that the scope of Commons is much
> > > > broader than that of Wikipedia.
> > > >
> > > > Has there been, or should there be, any research into this, or why
> > people
> > > > don't contribute more broadly?
> > > >
> > > > ~Benjamin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Robert Myers
> > > Secretary - Wikimedia Australia
> > > M: +61 400 670 288
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://www.wikimedia.org.au
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation
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> > > your support by membership or donations to keep the Wikimedia mission
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