Sorry if I am answering to the wrong thread about gender policing in Singapore.
- handoko On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 00:55 Željko Blaće <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 8:27 AM Mina Theofilatou <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi and thanks a lot for your email! >> > > You are most welcome. > > You also raised some super interesting topics and gave me insights in your > activities and Wikimania scholarship decisions I really appreciate. > > I hope you do not mind this email remaining public as I really feel it is > an important topic at least as much as your friend does! I hope Butch does > also. > > > >> This friend is not involved in the Wikimedia movement, she would be a >> "novice". I talked to her about Wikimania - she can self-fund herself >> whereas sadly I can't - and she raised some concerns. >> > > OK - but at least you got the scholarship so you are certain you will be > there? > I see you are not really contributing much to Wikimedia yourself also > https://guc.toolforge.org/?by=date&user=Saintfevrier > Interesting that you have been selected for a Scholarship anyway again and > again...is this 4th Wikimania for you? > > I hope few people from our QW2023 team are there as one of 3 topics is > Diversity. For now I did not hear anyone got a scholarship. > > >> The others I was able to address (respect for privacy e.g. by wearing the >> special tag that photos are not desirable) but this one had me wondering. I >> told her she could sign up for the mailing lists but she preferred the >> discussion went through me. She's quite sensitive with her personal data, >> perhaps too much so, but of course I respect her hesitation. >> > > I see. What do you think makes her so sensitive? Was she experiencing some > kind of trauma? Most adult LGBT+ people did in one way or another. > > >> It so happens that I have done a lot of reading on the issue, for totally >> different reasons, and I can confirm that incidents have occured in >> settings where an individual who is male on all accounts (physical >> features) enters a female space (restrooms, lockers) by self-identifying as >> a woman and then proceeds to harass women using the space. >> > > Interesting. Do you mind sharing the references to that literature? Maybe > this is worth a Wikipedia article? > > >> I'm not saying it's a frequent occurence, or that it will happen at >> Wikimania (haha she actually liked the name of the annual event :) but it >> is a valid concern that needs to be addressed, if the organisers want all >> participants to feel safe and comfortable. >> > > I agree for valid concerns to be addressed whenever possible. I would love > to learn how this can be proven valid. > > >> In the past these issues would go by "rule of thumb": you see a man in >> the women's toilets, you report it. Now I'm confused: if you report it, >> would you be offending the gender access policy for the restrooms? >> > > I do not know. I am queer identifying and male presenting, though not > always and in the most patriarchal normative ways. I would not go around > reporting people from just being around, but that is my choice as I feel I > have no traumas with gender representation, but ideological ones with > rightwing Croatian extremist who obducted the HR Wikipedia for decade and > were visiting Wikimanias and CEE Meetings without WMF's intervention for a > decade. > > Self-identification can be tricky... >> > > I am not sure what you mean. I think if people are not putting others in > direct danger through action, usually I am OK with whatever they identify > as long as it is legal (no Nazi symbols and similar..) > > >> That said, I would be happy to participate in any discussions on the >> topic, provided I can fit them into my hectic schedule (more hectic than I >> care, which is one of the reasons I have not edited in quite a while...) >> > > Indeed, maybe you should reconsider if you travel too much and edit too > little and pass on the chance to others? > > Thanks again :) >> > > You are most welcome! > > > > On Sat, 24 Jun 2023, 08:59 Željko Blaće, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Mina! I am not sure if we got to meet online, but I see you are Greek >>> and involved in Outreach activities so I hope we will eventually even meet >>> in person in the Balkans. Meanwhile I see you attended many Wikimanias and >>> glad to see you have friendly friends who claim to be pro diversity and >>> confortable with LGBTQ folx, so I am curious about the one you ask >>> a question for. Is she not comfortable asking this question herself? Why do >>> you think that is the case? >>> >>> Queering Wikipedia 2023 event organizing team is planning offline events >>> and we would like to have them welcoming to all well intendended and >>> tolerant folx. I am curious to know which exact incidents of harassment by >>> 'males who identify as women' do you refer to? Also as you think it is a >>> valid concern, I would love to know why you think this could happen in >>> Wikimania? Because people are mostly Wikipedians and Wikimedians? (hope >>> your friend did not misunderstand the wikiMANIA part of the brand) >>> >>> Unrelated to our context, do you and your friend think harassment >>> happens because someone is not-cis? >>> I would think it is mostly because those people are harassers and they >>> are in bigger numbers as cis. >>> >>> Thank you for your answers in advance! >>> >>> >>> Best Z. Blace >>> >>> p.s. As a neo-nazi and right-wing militants attack victim (also known to >>> be on their lists) I would love to raise concerns over tolerance for >>> neo-nazi, right-wing and pro-gun militants in Wikimedia, but there was >>> historically no or very little support for concrete work, so I would love >>> for us to brainstorm at one point what makes sense to do, where and when. >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 8:23 PM Mina Theofilatou <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but on behalf of a >>>> friend who is considering attending I'd like to know about the policy on >>>> gendered restrooms in the conference venue. She is very comfortable with >>>> the LGBTQ community and celebrates diversity, but is concerned about the >>>> possibility of AMAB individuals who self-identify as women using the >>>> women's restrooms. I have been to several Wikimanias and I don't recall any >>>> related problems having occurred, but I do see that it is a vald concern as >>>> there have been incidients of harassment by males who identify as women in >>>> other public events. >>>> >>>> Thanks, best wishes for a safe and fruitful Wikimania :) >>>> >>>> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023, 20:22 Wikimania, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve been receiving >>>>> a lot of questions related to travel to Singapore: visas, vaccines, >>>>> hotels, >>>>> weather… We invite you to take a look at our Travel page on the >>>>> Wikimania Wiki <https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel>, >>>>> with subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and accommodations. Feel >>>>> free to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach out to us at >>>>> [email protected] <http://[email protected]> if anything >>>>> is unclear or incomplete. >>>>> >>>>> To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for Singapore, but >>>>> everyone needs to fill out a Singapore entry card before arrival. Also >>>>> Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine from many countries–please see >>>>> if >>>>> yours is on the list! >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Butch Bustria* >>>>> >>>>> On behalf of the Core Organizing Team >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimania-l mailing list -- [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >
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