Of course. I have not given up on them. ;-) On Jan 17, 1:12 am, mikech <mp.ch...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, maybe next year. Massimo, do try again. > > On Jan 16, 4:30 pm, John Heenan <johnmhee...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jan 16, 5:33 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote: > > > > Back to PyCon. Rejecting all web2py talks for 3 years in a row is not > > > a fluke. We do have more users that some of the projects that will be > > > talked about at PyCon 2010. > > > Just check > > > this:http://www.google.com/trends?q=repoze%2C+web2py&ctab=0&geo=all&date=a... > > > Yet there will be a 4hrs tutorial on repoze. Notice that I am not > > > complaining about Repoze, that is actually one of the subjects I am > > > interested in, but people are entitled to ask, without blaming anyone: > > > why not web2py? > > > I risk being labelled as an irrelevant 'social scientist' type by this > > posting, but what have I got to lose by taking this risk? It might > > provide some insight. > > > With regard to web2py being voted out in the cold at PyCon and Django > > being warmly welcomed, there may be a lot more subtlety than many > > realise. I personally prefer web2py over Django for a few simple > > 'common sense' reasons, namely the web2py beats Django hands down for > > elegance, coherency and for want of some better words, far less > > irritation. > > > PyCon really has very little practical use. Whatever PyCon achieves > > can be accomplished much more efficiently with other means. PyCon is > > essentially a religious celebration for those whose life is consumed > > by Python, with Guido van Rossum at the top of the hierarchy as Pope > > (or dictator). PyCon tells everyone that Python is a important, > > provides an opportunity for devotional hero worship, a reinforcement > > of community and reinforcement of place within a hierarchy (known as > > networking). > > > Essentially Massimo is being told he is not wanted as part of the > > community by a democratic voting process. This has nothing to do with > > the merits of web2py. We can look elsewhere for an explanation. > > > So why would the this community not want to welcome Massimo and why > > would they risk compromising themselves by rejecting web2py or only > > allowing web2py a very marginal participation? > > > To me the biggest turn off about web2py has nothing to do with the > > merits of web2py. It has to do with the coupling of web2py to an > > academic environment. I suspect if web2py could shake off this > > association, web2py might find itself less alienated. This is ironic > > because web2py espouses the opposite of what many come to associate > > with academic tainting, namely impractical academically politicised > > snobberies, hierarchies and verbiage. Linux has a classic example of a > > clash with academia that the Linux hierarchy forever continue to milk. > > > Python nearly evaporated like many other wannabes. Guido was > > apparently going nowhere. It was the corporate world, not the academic > > world that has made Python such a success and the best example of this > > is Google. In fact Google in effect subsidises the ongoing development > > of Python through employing Guido and allowing him to spend much of > > his employee time working on developing Python as a language. > > > Initially I was incredibly suspicious of web2py because of the > > academic taint. I even went to the extent of examining Massimo's > > academic profile. Sure enough there is evidence of academic snobbery. > > Massimo lists web2py as a hobby academic pursuit and a teaching tool. > > He lists his academic pursuit as sub atomic physics. Web2py comes > > across as an embarrassment to Massimo in an academic context. > > > Python is replacing C as the 'de facto' teaching language in IT > > courses. Python has an incredibly strong presence in academic number > > crunching and modelling (NumPy and SciPy for example). But Python does > > not belong to academia and clearly the Python community does not > > welcome academia. This is understandable. Why would a strong thriving > > community wish to risk.academia muscling in its achievements and risk > > having credit and control wrested away? Contrary to the images > > portrayed by academic Computer Science departments as powerhouses of > > innovation, the phenomenal achievements in IT have had next to nothing > > to do with academia. Academia has always played catch-up in IT, never > > a leading role. It can be argued that web2py is starting to take a > > leading role as a web framework. But web frameworks would hardly be > > considered to be an academic sub discipline. After all web2py is > > merely regarded as a teaching tool in an academic context. > > > By the way I will not be attending PyCon 2010 anywhere. I NEVER attend > > conferences. The last conference I attended was one in the nineties in > > Sydney Australia hosted by Microsoft at a time when Microsoft ActiveX > > (or COM) was the latest sexy technology, when the Internet was > > regarded as the Disneyland of public networks and when Microsoft was > > stating they would not support the Internet. How ironic given how > > closely Microsoft is now identified with the Internet by general > > users. > > > John Heenan > >
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