Robert Leguillon <[email protected]> wrote: We do not have the incoming flow rate, and all we have for the outgoing > rate are the two from Lewan (one while it was running, and one during > purging). >
Rossi stated the incoming flow rate was 15 L per hour. I think it was, because it took two hours to fill the vessel. That is a constant displacement pump, which is a highly reliable gadget. No one saw him change the flow rate. The sound of the pump did not change in the video. So I am pretty sure it was 15 L the whole time. As I said, I have *never* seen Rossi lie about this kind of detail. Never. Nor do I see any reason why he would. > You can't see how tenuous the conclusion is until you try to reproduce it > yourself. > Have done. > If the output thermocouples are jeopardized by their placement, the test > is moot. > Those things will pick up the pipe temperature reliably. I have used them for that purpose. They do not pick up the temperature inches away, or the air temp. > You start to realize, for example, that Mats raising the end of the line, > trying to get SOME idea of flow rate, is effecting the test. While he's > pooling up the condensate line for a careful measure, this length of water > actually creates additional back pressure all of the way to the heat > exchanger, and respectively, the E-Cat. That back pressure results in a > higher boiling point, raising the recorded temperature at the E-Cat probe > with no power increase necessary. > No way Jose. There is no way the back pressure from this can measurably affect kilowatt level steam production temperatures or behavior at the other side of a heat exchanger! Lewan's method was crude and I doubt he can measure the flow rate to within 20%. The difference between this result and Method 1 is probably explained by Method 2 inaccuracy. > You realize that a large spike can be seen at the heat exchanger simply > by water overflowing. > I believe you have that backwards. > I've said this before, but imagine the E-Cat filling taking in water at > a rate of 1 g/s, but only boiling off .1 g/s. > That would lower to total enthalpy going to the heat exchanger. There would be more enthalpy when it is boiling enough to prevent an overflow. The test does not begin until the vessel is full, so it has to be either overflowing, or boiling off, or a combination of the two the whole time. You get the most heat when it is all steam; the least when it is all overflowing water; and midway between them when it is mixed. > Without knowing the input water flow and output water flow of the E-Cat, > trying to derive any power data from its temperature is a fool's errand. > We do know the water flow rate. But anyway Method 1 is reliable, and the problems with thermocouple placement are mostly imaginary, in my opinion, and in my experience with similar thermocouples and hot pipes. In Method 1: the calorimetry in the secondary was, in my opinion, > inconclusive. The thermal transfer between the brass and the water, the air > surrounding the brass, the unknown conductivity between the braided wire > and the nut, the environment under the insulation, all make the > thermocouple placement suspect . . . > Try placing at thermocouple on a hot pipe, in various spots, under various covers. You will find the differences are insignificant. People put temperature probes on pipe surfaces all the time in equipment rooms. As far as I know, Rossi did this exactly the right way, putting it under tape. That is the way I have seen it done by experienced HVAC people, and the way it is recommended in manuals. For a permanent installation they usually use a dial thermometer with the probe inside the fluid, but there are plenty of installations with a surface mounted sensor on a pipe. See, for example: http://www.us.sbt.siemens.com/sbttemplates/library/pdf/129460.pdf QUOTE: "To ensure accuracy, the sensor must be mounted under insulation, away from drafts." They recommend heavier insulation that Rossi used. I have seen ones for sale with lighter insulating tape than Siemens recommends, packaged in with the sensor. I do not recall where . . . Try it! - Jed
