On 2020-01-02 16:39, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 1/1/20 7:48 PM, John Mellor wrote:
>> However, I believe that you have completely missed the point of the threads. 
>>  If Gnome (for example) is not API-safe and failures may occur when 
>> upgrading its components and/or apps, then a suitable workaround would 
>> possibly be to install only those app updates over a reboot, and allow the 
>> other packages to be updated normally and without requiring a reboot.  Maybe 
>> this could easily be flagged for dnf using a static list of package groups 
>> that are known to be unsafe.  This possible solution would remove the need 
>> for 75% of the reboots.
>
> You are still not getting it.  There is no reliable way to tell if an update 
> is safe.  There was even one a while back where X would blow up in the middle 
> of the transaction which caused serious problems.  If you are comfortable 
> with doing online updates (which I generally do as well), then do it.  But if 
> something goes wrong, don't file a bug.  For non-technical users, it's much 
> better for them to have to reboot to do the updates than deal with strange 
> random issues.  There's probably a kernel update anyway.

Indeed.

I do online updates as well.  I then use "tracer" to see what it recommends as 
needing either a restart or
maybe a reboot.  Yet that isn't even 100% reliable.  I'm a KDE user and my 
favorite "update" is the occasional
one where after update "tracer" recommends a logout/login and yet that is 
impossible from the desktop.

I recall that even doing

qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 3 3

didn't work.  I think a dbus error was reported.  I just end up closing all 
applications and then doing

systemctl reboot

I can imagine a non-technical user just reaching for the power button out of 
frustration.

-- 
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
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