Thanks Sebastian. Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 23, 2020, at 2:32 AM, "seba.wag...@gmail.com" <seba.wag...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I did a load test with 91 active user sessions. > 10 conference rooms each with 4 users and each user audio and video turned on. > Plus 2 webinar rooms, 1 user presenting with audio and video turned on and 25 > users viewing in each room. > > I will publish results shortly. > > Thanks > Seb > >> On Mon, 23 Nov 2020, 9:18 pm Rohrbach, Gerald, <g.rohrb...@funkegruppe.de> >> wrote: >> Denis, >> >> >> >> we have OM and BigBlue Button in use. >> >> BBB is hosted on a provider machine. >> >> >> >> OM we have on internal VL, with LDAP connection. >> >> Also we have a physical server with 12 Core 2Ghz and 32G since some days. >> >> If I will find some time, we will do an stress test. We have some employees >> in home offices… >> >> >> >> I was also surprised, that BBB shows much more users, but using the same >> technology. >> >> The key probably is, that BBB is for presenting by default, my understanding. >> >> With OM you have a conference with all, what end’s in a lots of streams. >> >> >> >> We are a production company, so conference is okay for us in 99% of cases. >> >> But our engineers do some online trainings sometimes, and the number of >> listeners can be more then 100. >> >> >> >> Maybe I did not got all the features and settings for OM. >> >> But I would think in a class room mode with many people there should be only >> >> the teacher presenting his video and audio. There ,( that’s my opinion) is >> no need that >> >> every listener can talk to all by default and show his video by default. >> >> Yes, it´s not like sitting in the same room… >> >> >> >> However, still my favourite is OM. >> >> I learned a lot about this technology in the last 8 months and OM has moved >> forward really. >> >> For internal use with LDAP it’s simple. >> >> >> >> This forum is really active and the installation documents are nearly >> perfect. >> >> >> >> I will let you know, when a stress test is done. >> >> Maybe we have in Germany only virtual Christmas parties…. >> >> So a good time for stress tests. >> >> >> >> >> >> Gerald. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Von: Denis Noctor [mailto:denisnoc...@gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Montag, 23. November 2020 07:58 >> An: user@openmeetings.apache.org >> Betreff: Re: Users per room client browser scalability >> >> >> >> Hi there everyone, >> >> My sincerest apologies for only getting back to you now. As I had mentioned >> in my previous email that I was going through a personal issue and it took >> longer than I had anticipated to get back in touch. >> >> However, as mentioned before, I have been keeping up to date by reading all >> the emails in the forum over the last few weeks... and some direct emails >> also. >> >> I also apologize for the length of the email... so maybe you should grab a >> coffee. >> >> As mentioned in my previous email, I set up 10 devices to connect to Room 7 >> on the OM demo server - all of which where running the latest version of >> Chrome. 3 machines running Windows 10, 1 running Windows 8, 4 running >> Windows 7, 2 Amazon Fires (set up to run Chrome) with varying degrees of ram >> (2, 4, 8 and 12 gigs) >> >> The results are as follows: >> After logging in around 8.22pm (Mexico time), 12th November (OpenMeetings - >> Next, 5.1.0-SNAPSHOT, Revision: db7be4b, Build date: 2020-11-09T14:57:23Z , >> I gradually added other devices to the room. I got to 8. There was a little >> but of a time lapse... in the sense that I would move from one computer to >> another... and could still see myself in one feed after I had move to >> another. It is important to note that 2 of the computers (older HP's) have a >> slight webcam issue... (I think there is a fauly cable... sometimes works >> sometimes doesn't - but audio/mic was working fine). >> >> When I added 2 the last two devices, things started to break down. The audio >> quality was clearly reduced... there was a lot of crackling sounds... and >> some of the users video pods disappeared from some of the >> devices´screens.... or "empty" video pods filled some screens... on some >> devices.... but were viewable on others. Some users appeared to be >> disconnected, though they could continue to view the whiteboards... but had >> their audio and video disconnected (icons in orange)... when they tried to >> reconnect... they couldn't... they clicked on the audio / vid icons but with >> no effect... refreshing the screen sometimes seemed to correct this. >> >> While 8 users seemed to be able to connect okay... there was a little bit of >> a time delay. As you can understand, I don't have headphones and microphones >> for each and every computer... so I spaced them around my house... when I >> talked... I could hear my voice being repeated... (I am not referring to >> echo feedback).... there was a slight time delay by a couple of seconds on >> some of the devices... moving from device to device. However, with just 5 >> users in a room, this was not really an issue. >> >> From time to time users experienced other users being disconnected or >> whereby they could see the "empty video pod" with the green border flashing >> on and off as someone spoke.... but again no audio or video being >> received.... but it was possible to see the same users on other devices. >> >> Users would try to "refresh" the page... again only having access to 4 - 5 >> users on the page.... and not necessarily seeing the moderator. I finished >> testing around 9.50pm. >> >> Some additional observations: >> >> Based on some of the emails over the last few weeks. It appears to be that >> one OM instance can only deal with 3 simultaneous rooms with 5 users approx >> in each room (using audio and video)... and based on the above maybe a >> little more, but at a stretch. This appears to boil down to limitations due >> to number Kurento / WebRTC connections.... some of you have mention >> somewhere in the range of 200 - 300 connections. >> >> As a result I took a look at a few sites regarding BigBlueButton (BBB), as >> it also uses Kurento and WebRTC to get a general idea as to how many users >> can be in a room (with camera and audio). However, a lot of digging had to >> be done as many of the numbers that are used are about how many participants >> can be in a room (without cam and mic) with a moderator (using cam and mic). >> Now I apologize for bringing up BBB in conversation, as I am not endorsing >> the platform....reminding me of Harry Potter, (Voldemort) "He who shall not >> be named" :) >> >> However, it might be worth investigating for ideas on how to increase the >> number of cams / mics in an OM room. >> >> You can view this information here: >> https://support.blindsidenetworks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042272991-How-many-users-can-I-have-in-a-BigBlueButton-session-at-one-time- >> >> Similarly, if you look at the following link it suggests that the more >> number of concurrent users... the number of rooms will be less (but again >> not taking into consideration cams and mics) : >> https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-users-can-bigbluebutton-support >> >> However, regarding the limited number of users (with cam and mic), BBB seems >> to have got arround this by having a window of 5 cams that can be scrolled >> left or right. It appears moderators can still view up to 25 cams etc. >> >> Take a look at this: >> https://support.blindsidenetworks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360049799851-September-16-2020-Webcam-viewing-and-recording-updates >> >> _________________________ >> >> OM Demo Next Server Specs: >> >> @Maxim, is it possible to share the specs of the demo server, ram, cpu, etc, >> so that we can get a general idea as to what to benchmark against. >> >> At the moment I am using AWS, t3a.large (8 gigs Ram , 2 vCPUS). However, I >> am under the impression that even if I upgrade my AWS server... I am not >> really going to see any major improvements given the fact that I am still >> limited to the number of users (with cam and mic) per room. >> >> Before this whole covid situation, my school had 10 classrooms, class size >> average 10. I would like to be able to have a similar virtual set up... but >> based on all the info above I would need 3 - 4 instances (using clustering, >> which I have never done before) - but will still have a problem having 11 >> users (10 students / 1 moderator) in a room. >> >> And while I know the following question (as an alternative) might be >> considered ridiculous - can a multiple number of OM installations (with >> multiple KMS etc) be conducted in one server - which more ram, cpu power etc? >> >> It would be great if anyone out there has a successful clustering model that >> they could share - even to test across 2 instances. At present, I am using >> Ubuntu 18.04 on AWS as described above. >> >> Either way it seems the main obstacle at the moment seems to be how Kurento >> and WebRTC can be set up to overcome these limitations >> >> Apologies once again for the length of this email and for taking so long to >> get back in touch. >> >> (I've added a few screenshots regarding my test below (one computer's time >> is 2 hours behind for some strange reason) :)) >> >> All the best, >> >> Denis. >> >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avg.com >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 12:26 AM Maxim Solodovnik <solomax...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 14:24, Denis Noctor <denisnoc...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi there Maxim... I did a test with 8 computers and 2 tablets last night >> (spread across 2 WiFis)... please don’t delete the logs on the OM demo >> server (next)... >> >> >> >> I just backup the logs >> >> >> >> I will come back to you all with some feedback and pics later tomorrow (if >> that’s okay)... however, for reference... I started the process in the >> public room #7...start time around 8.22pm (12th Nov) (México... 6 hrs >> behind) and end time 9.50pm... (if you want to check the logs) .... the >> short version is that 8 users experienced relatively stable performance. >> >> >> >> Looking forward to hear the full version :)) >> >> >> >> Will give you a more detailed feedback once I deal with a personal issue. >> All the best, Denis. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Nov 11, 2020, at 9:09 PM, Maxim Solodovnik <solomax...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hello All, >> >> >> >> I'll try to answer in one email :) >> >> >> >> On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 20:32, dww <dwort...@mykolab.com> wrote: >> >> However, Denis, I think your experiment with multiple devices would be >> valuable as then there is only one browser tab or window with the OM >> room open as a guest on each device. Perhaps that will make a >> difference. >> >> >> >> yes, this would be better test (even if "fake" camera is used) >> >> >> >> >> Dennis >> >> On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 08:24 -0500, dww wrote: >> > Thanks, Denis, >> > >> > Back on Oct. 17 Maxim provided the following Bash script to be run on >> > the machine with a client side browser for the psuedo guest users. ( >> > Use another machine to create the room administratively and send >> > invitations) This is a far simpler way to stress test the client side >> > browser. >> > >> > Dennis >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > i just have tried the following script >> > started as `./run10.sh 5` >> > >> > everything seems to work, but my CPU was 800% busy (all cores were >> > 100% >> > busy) >> > >> > without `--use-fake-device-for-media-stream` parameter I had lots of >> > permission errors due to camera was "captured" by first browser >> > other have reported "Camera busy" error >> > >> > >> > _HASH_HERE_ - should be replaced with real hash (I have created >> > endless >> > invitation hash to the private conference room) >> > >> > the script >> > =============================================== >> > #!/bin/bash >> > >> > i=$1 >> > >> > if [ -z "${i}" ]; then >> > i=30 >> > fi >> > let "i += 0" >> > >> > rm -rf /tmp/delme* >> > >> > while ((i--)); do >> > #echo "${i}" >> > mkdir /tmp/delme${i} >> > >> > #local conference >> > chromium-browser --user-data-dir=/tmp/delme${i} --disable-infobars >> > --no-default-browser-check --allow-insecure-localhost >> > --use-fake-device-for-media-stream ' >> > https://localhost:5443/openmeetings/hash?invitation=_HASH_HERE_&language=1' >> > & >> > done >> > >> > >> > On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 01:53 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote: >> > > Hi there everyone, this seems to be the “elephant in the room” >> > > discussion, while there has been a HUGE amount of development and >> > > progress in OM since March (thank you so much @Maxim) ... there is >> > > the whole issue of, for example, the number of users per room... >> > > which seems to be about 5-6 (and maybe even to 7) when pushed to >> > > the >> > > limit... with both audio and video being broadcasted from all >> > > users... and, something else.. if there are simultaneous >> > > classes/sessions being held on the same server... will this >> > > restrict >> > > things even further? Is this an overall limitation >> >> >> >> Sebastian did some AWS based testing >> >> And, if i'm not mistaken, the server with 4GB RAM was able to handle at >> least 3 rooms of 5 people >> >> (5.1.0-SNAPSHOT should behave better than 5.0.1) >> >> >> >> to increase the number of rooms you can use cluster >> >> >> >> to using a >> > > browser >> > > based approach... or should we be taking approach? >> >> >> >> well, >> >> there is "The Limit" >> >> KMS can handle only certain amount of multimedia connections >> >> additionally there are other limits: >> >> - bandwidth >> >> - CPU >> >> - RAM >> >> - open files (network socket is a file) >> >> >> >> "The Limit" is something I'm not sure how to deal with (yet) >> >> >> >> > > >> > > It was my intention to test out the OM “demo servers” over the last >> > > 2 >> > > weeks but will take today off and try to test 10 real device >> > > connections... with a combination of desktops, laptops, android >> > > tablets and maybe even the odd iPhone or two. >> >> >> >> Apple devices has issues with sound (outgoing) >> >> I'm still investigating this one >> >> >> >> > > >> > > My million dollar question is... prior to WebRTC and Kurento... was >> > > it possible to have 5-10 users in a room with audio and video >> > > working >> > > seamlessly in previous versions (for example, the old “flash” setup >> > > (which will be redundant after Christmas... Chrome etc >> > > notifications) >> > > and if so, what has changed? >> >> >> >> Yes this was possible >> >> OM_before_5 was based on Red5 media server >> >> Unfortunately it's open source version has no WebRTC support >> >> >> >> > > >> > > If there is anyone out there that has no problem with user numbers >> > > (using audio and vid)... exceeding a body of 7-10+, please let us >> > > know. >> > > >> > > In the meantime, I’ll give you my feedback on my tests. >> > > >> > > I really appreciate everything that has been done to date. >> > > >> > > Thanks. >> > > >> > > Sent from my iPhone >> > > >> > > > On Nov 9, 2020, at 4:50 PM, dww <dwort...@mykolab.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hello Maxim, >> > > > >> > > > A couple of weeks ago there was an email thread about the 5 total >> > > > users >> > > > for one room, each user with video/microphone under the >> > > > Subject: "docker container clustering experiments #1". >> >> >> >> For whatever reason you love to start new mail threads :)))) >> >> >> >> In this >> > > > case >> > > > it >> > > > appears the bottleneck is the CPU usage on the client machine >> > > > with >> > > > the >> > > > browser. >> > > > >> > > > In a response to Denis Noctor on a similar thread you mentioned >> > > > to >> > > > try >> > > > the following: >> > > > >> > > > "please check allowed amount of opened files for the user who >> > > > starts >> > > > OM/KMS/TURN >> > > > increasing it might help" >> > > > >> > > > Might this help with the issue we discussed? Where approximately >> > > > do >> > > > I >> > > > set the allowed amount of opened files? >> >> >> >> KMS seems to drop connections when there is not enough files >> >> (network socket is a file) >> >> you can check the limit for current user using `ulimit -n` (`ulimit -a` to >> see all limits) >> >> >> >> to check limit for `nobody` user `su nobody --shell /bin/bash --command >> "ulimit -n"` >> >> >> >> to increase the limit i'm changing `/etc/security/limits.conf` file >> >> https://github.com/openmeetings/openmeetings-docker/blob/48b72f4d0f38a0fab2021a0a2e4d6693c61c00be/scripts/om_euser.sh#L35 >> >> >> >> (seems to work at Ubuntu) >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >> > > > Also are there any other things that can be tried to improve this >> > > > scalability? Are there areas in the code that can be examined to >> > > > investigate how to improve this? >> >> >> >> KMS cluster would be ultimate solution, I guess >> >> >> >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > Dennis >> > > > >> > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Best regards, >> Maxim >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Best regards, >> Maxim >> >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avg.com >> >>
