I think it really depends on the implementation. A BASH script doesnt complain when a variable isn't set...its just not set...no apparent errors other than odd side effects...
I would think, with this argument, one could do a 2 pass parse of the Ant script first... I think its really all in the need and what the tool is suppose to accomplish. Myself, I think Ant is a GREAT scripting language so I use it as such... I understand the other issues discussed, but I believe I can counter with my own arguments ;) Scot -----Original Message----- >From: James Abley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Feb 8, 2007 4:37 PM >To: Ant Users List <user@ant.apache.org> >Subject: Re: Python implementation for Ant > >I only have limited scripting language experience (Python, Perl, Ruby >and Groovy) but normally a variable not being set would show up at >runtime, rather than compile time? Discuss. > >;-) > >Hans Schwaebli wrote: >> A side effect of the make files is its platform dependence. And there had >> been other problems I read, like a space character causing a bug and you >> needed lot of time to find these bugs. Concerning bugs I can tell my own >> story with the way Ant files are written. If a variable is not set, a >> compiler of a scripting language would complain at compile time, wheareas >> with Ant's XML files these bugs only show up at runtime. Just one example. I >> surely have hundreds of reasons inventing a alternative to Ant like the >> inventor of Ant started developing it after so many bugs because of a >> missing space or something like this. >> >> >> "Scot P. Floess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Peter: >> >> That's a good point regarding Makefiles (I was simply thinking of >> scripting)... There was a time "loved" writing Makefiles...uhm...not >> anymore ;) >> >> Regardless...I still think XML as a markup is more than tolerable...I don't >> see the issues with it at all. I mean, I like Java but I don't think I'd >> want to write scripts using it... Just my personal preference...but >> still... I suppose one could have made the same argument against Makefiles >> and SH (or BASH)... >> >> Scot >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Peter Reilly >> >>> Sent: Feb 8, 2007 1:47 PM >>> To: Ant Users List >>> Subject: Re: Python implementation for Ant >>> >>> On 2/8/07, Matt Benson wrote: >>>> Here's a link to Terence Parr's "Humans should not >>>> have to grok XML" article: >>>> >>>> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-sbxml.html >>>> >>>> In it he explains the distinction between XML as a >>>> data representation format, the use for which it was >>>> AFAIK intended, >>> This is one viewpoint. >>> HTML is from the same source and it is for >>> human consumption. >>> XML is actually easier that HTML as it is less forgiving >>> with regard to mistakes. >>>> vs. as an explicit interface for human >>>> consumption. Regardless of your own position, I found >>>> it an interesting read. Terence is an example of a >>>> noted personality in the OSS community who develops in >>>> Java but has never touched Ant precisely _because_ of >>>> its XML interface. >>> Mmm, >>> I spend ~15 years fighting cryptic make files - sometimes >>> I wrote perl scripts to help - it was not a pleasant experience. >>> I never really understood the M4 / configure / autoconf stuff. >>> >>> I found ant build files to be simple to understand and to >>> use for java projects (once one realized that the commands/tasks >>> are directory based). >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> So such developers definitely >>>> exist, thought it's quite possible he is the only one >>>> whose aversion to human-targeted XML is a strong >>>> enough deterrent in and of itself. ;) >>>> >>>> -Matt >>>> >>>> --- "Scot P. Floess" wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd have to agree with Rob... Have you ever looked >>>>> at Voice XML? It took is scripting but using XML as >>>>> the "markup" language.... >>>>> >>>>> What is your aversion to XML with regards to it as a >>>>> scripting language? I personally like it... >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" >>>>>> Sent: Feb 8, 2007 12:58 PM >>>>>> To: Ant Users List >>>>>> Subject: RE: Python implementation for Ant >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Hans Schwaebli >>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:01 AM >>>>>>> To: Ant Users List >>>>>>> Subject: Python implementation for Ant >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What do you think about the XML format used for >>>>> writing Ant >>>>>>> scripts? I don't like it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What about writing Ant scripts in a script >>>>> language like >>>>>>> Python or Jython instead of writing them in XML? >>>>> I think it >>>>>>> would be much more productive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There seems to be a private project for this, >>>>> but it is not >>>>>>> official, not from Apache. >>>>>> I have no issues with XML. It seems to work well >>>>> for me. It is easy to >>>>>> read, understand, and maintain build files in XML >>>>> format. I have no >>>>>> desire to change the way I am currently writing >>>>> build files. >>>>>> -Rob Anderson >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> Scot P. Floess >>>>> 27 Lake Royale >>>>> Louisburg, NC 27549 >>>>> >>>>> (252) 478-8087 (Home) >>>>> (919) 754-4592 (Work) >>>>> >>>>> Chief Architect JPlate >>>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate >>>>> Chief Architect JavaPIM >>>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim >>>>> >>>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >>>> It's here! Your new message! >>>> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. >>>> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >> >> >> Scot P. Floess >> 27 Lake Royale >> Louisburg, NC 27549 >> >> (252) 478-8087 (Home) >> (919) 754-4592 (Work) >> >> Chief Architect JPlate http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate >> Chief Architect JavaPIM http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and >> always stay connected to friends. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Scot P. Floess 27 Lake Royale Louisburg, NC 27549 (252) 478-8087 (Home) (919) 754-4592 (Work) Chief Architect JPlate http://sourceforge.net/projects/jplate Chief Architect JavaPIM http://sourceforge.net/projects/javapim --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
