I definitely meant "I don't think that should block adoption". -David
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Glyph <gl...@twistedmatrix.com> wrote: > > On Jun 23, 2015, at 1:49 PM, David Reid <dr...@dreid.org> wrote: > > So while it'd be nice for the PSF CoC to be updated such that it was > enforceable I think that should block adoption of a CoC by the Twisted > Project. > > > I hope that you meant > > I *don't* think that should block adoption… > > > unless you meant you thought it should block adoption of the PSF CoC? > > In any case, to try to cover some concerns raised so far: > > Why the Django CoC rather than the PSF (or, the quite-similar Contributor > Covenant)? > > > There are two reasons: specificity, and reporting. > > Specificity is important because of course, everyone wants to be > reasonable. The point of having a code of conduct is outlining what > "reasonable" means in our specific context. Given the difficulties the > software industry has had in the last couple of decades with respecting its > marginalized members, it's important to take that context into account and > say what (sadly) might not be obvious to people. > > Clarity around how reporting violations works is important because people > who are already feeling harassed in their day-to-day existence are often > not going to be comfortable poking around trying to figure out *how* to > deal with a violation of the code on their own. Most likely, they will > simply quietly exit the community. So it should be as easy as possible to > report. > > Why isn't this a fork of an existing CoC? > > > I agree that this is a problem. Django does not appear to have their CoC > in an easily-forkable format. Perhaps we should contact the Django project > and ask them to rectify that so that we can make minor tweaks. We also do > need minor tweaks, because the information about contact points for > reporting has to be different for different projects. > > I'd also like to raise two issues of my own. In his original message, > Moshe said this: > > I think, and hope, that our IRC channel, our issue system and mailing list > have > been a friendly, pleasant place. > > > For the most part, I believe this is true, and I think we have managed to > be a welcoming and pleasant environment for all concerned. However, I > don't want anyone to get a false sense of confidence from this, and think > that we're doing great since we've never had any incidents. The nature of > such incidents is to remain private. In Twisted's decade-plus of history, > especially on IRC, I have had to personally adjudicate several disputes, > and we have definitely had potential contributors quietly disappear from > the community due to apparent hostility or inappropriate remarks. We have > certainly had to ban people from the channel, on at least one occasion > permanently. There have not been any particularly severe, particularly > public or particularly recent incidents, but there has definitely been some > unpleasantness at times. So, while I do believe we are doing well, there is > unquestionably room to improve. > > Thank you all so *very* much for not making me type that as a *reply* to > anyone saying we don't need a CoC ;-). > > Also, I would like to stress that I personally believe that this is a > 1.0-release type of effort, and in no way a finished product. I have lots > of concerns with fairness and transparency in the way disputes are handled, > and the list of possible responses, but what we have right now (i.e.: the > personal judgement of whatever committer happens to be online at the time) > is definitely far worse. So I expect that the work will continue and we > will see revisions to this, hopefully in collaboration with other projects > so that Twisted developers aren't taking this on, Django being the obvious > example. > > -glyph > > > _______________________________________________ > Twisted-Python mailing list > Twisted-Python@twistedmatrix.com > http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python > >
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