Geoff, glad to hear you! Can't agree with Francis. Tapestry like any other framework has it's tricks and must haves! It's not very elegant to have to teach each new developer that comes to a Tap project that he has to know exactly the property names of the components they will use. Witch components do we have, that a given page is not accessible because of bad application or page specification configuration... etc. Tap is significantly different from other normally JSP or Struts or JSF frameworks. Of course we all agree.. it's better from our point of view... but, being different it doesn't have the visual modelers, the Tag Library's auto completion, palette and object inspector, etc etc. that current Java IDEs have. Or it did, in T3 with Spindle.
So Tap will have a major setback for new developers to come aboard a project and learning Tap, and even to experienced developers who will not be as productive or efficient. We could all be using unix's VI still now... but we're not! For some reason. So Geoff has a very good point! P.S. I really don't know how may people use Spindle today. The numbers > have obviously dropped off since T4 has taken over. If you want tool > support to have a higher priority going forward then speak up where > the Tapestry committers can hear you. Hugo and I are just two voices > in the committer crowd (that's growing pretty quickly these days!). > > I agree entirely! Geoff and Hugo are doing themselves what the community should be jointly doing! Why is a productivity component like Spindle not part of each new release of Tap? Or even if we didn't go that far (I know it's a bad idea, Tap must not be dependant of the tool for release, obviously) why are these projects without the Tap commiters participation? I for one think it's a must have. It's something that diminishes Tap regarding other frameworks. It's ridiculous. If we look at JSF for instance. Who would like to use it without a visual tool doing the tedious work behind the scenes? Few I think. Tap is much easier of course, that's one of the reasons we like it, but contrary to what would be expected may be a little harder if for JSF we have a load of AI behind our daily tasks, and in tapestry we have an XML and HTML plain old editor. This is one of the points that would make Tap acceptancy that much easier, therefore I think it should have more commitment from the community namely the Tap commiters. Anyone else shares this thought? Let yourselves be heard. If not... I'll simply crawl back under my cosy little stone! :-D Regards, On 4/11/06, Francis Amanfo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think it's time those lazy tapestry developers roll their sleeves up > their > long arms and start getting their hands dirty with some real tapestry > development. Life without Spindle in T4 isn't that bad like you probably > might want to think. You can avoid all the page specifications xml (where > I > think Spindle makes the most diffrerence) all together and use > annotations. > > F > > On 4/11/06, Mark Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Like Mark says - it may make sense for Spindle to actually do that... I > > wouldn't neccesarilly call it a "fear". It would probably be for the > > benefit of having a much earlier T5 Spindle. > > > > If Geoff is pressed for time anyway, it may make more sense to start > > getting a T5 spindle out the door, rather than spending time on T4, > > which will be "discontinued" by the time he finishes. At that point we > > will have the same delay for Spindle for T5 > > > > MARK > > > > > > > > > And to make things worse... has Geoff has stated he is still using T3 > at > > > work, so his efforts are on that direction... one has to pay the > bills. > > > Really hope that Marks fears don't come true and that Spindle doesn't > > skip > > > T4! > > > > > > Come on Geoff we're all holding our breaths out here! Keep it up! ;-) > > > > > > > > > On 4/10/06, Mark Stang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> Geoff is working on it when he has available cycles. And as we all > > know > > >> free time is hard to come by. Currently, he is on some kind of death > > march > > >> at his paying job so it will be a bit before he can get back to > > Spindle. > > >> > > >> He has stated on the Spindle Development list that supporting 4.x is > > very > > >> different than supporting 3.x. And now that 5.0 is being written > that > > >> will not be backward compatible with 4.x or 3.x, it makes me wonder > if > > 4.xis worth the effort? I don't know if he can get it done before > > >> 5.x starts becoming the next golden child. > > >> > > >> Personally, I am staying on 3.x until the dust settles. > > >> > > >> regards, > > >> > > >> Mark > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Francis Amanfo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> Sent: Mon 4/10/2006 6:01 AM > > >> To: Tapestry users > > >> Subject: Re: spindle > > >> > > >> Tyi, Spindle for T4 is in a deep coma, dying a very slow death! ;-) > > >> > > >> F > > >> > > >> On 4/10/06, Korbinian Bachl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> does anyone know if spindle for T4 is still under development ? - > the > > >>> spindle blog says "on vacancy from 24th on..." and the mailing list > > also > > >>> has > > >>> no big signs about it.... > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> Korbinian > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Pedro Viegas > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > -- Pedro Viegas
