motion_driver=manual says Hands as the main way to drive the pump
That is not the only 'manual' drive...
Example - horse powered
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/illustration/horse-powdered-pump-royalty-free-illustration/172430485
Note that the horse could be substituted by several humans.
Other methods exist .. such as connecting a bicycle to the pump, much more
efficient use of human power.
Suggestion?
motion_driver=manual - Human or animal effort. ?
For alternatives to motion_driver consider power:source?
Note the colon follows its use in
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dgenerator
But I don' think pump:source=* could be used as some may confuse it between the
power/energy source and the source of the fluid pumped.
----------------
The descriptions need work ... e..g replace 'typically' with 'example'?
On 13/4/20 11:31 am, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
A search for the phrase "motion driver' finds links to some software.
A search for "motion driver" + "pump" finds women's high-heel shoes.
Perhaps "motion driver' is not the correct term?
A search for "pump driver" finds things about pumps, at least.
Maybe "pump_driver=*" is a better key?
-- Joseph Eisenberg
On 4/13/20, François Lacombe <fl.infosrese...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all
RFC on pumping proposal is went really well, with significant progresses
made these past weeks thanks to useful comments received (see Talk).
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
Tagging has been adapted to take care of several concerns regarding
windpumps, wells and semantic complexity relative to benefits it brings.
It is still proposed to discourage pump=powered/manual as they're at least
redundant with proposed classification of pumps/drivers technologies.
Important distinction between manual and powered pumps is still possible
with the help of motion_driver key.
I'm now looking for more examples with increased diversity of situations.
Due to covid lockdown I'm not able to get pictures of pumps in place. It
would be a pleasure to give a try to proposed tagging if someone has
existing pictures to challenge it.
Wikimedia commons will also be a privileged source of pictures as well.
Thank in advance for any additional input, all the best
François
Le jeu. 19 mars 2020 à 22:51, François Lacombe <fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>
a écrit :
Hi Joseph and thank you for such a quick and complete comment session
That 7 points allowed to change the proposal a bit and include
man_made=windmill, watermill instead of actuator.
Answers are available in Talk :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
I hope lacks of clarity are now fixed.
In case an answers solve a problem, don't hesitate to use {{Resolved|
comment }} template to close it.
Again, anyone would be welcome to propose situations involving pumps to
complete example sections.
All the best
François
Le jeu. 19 mars 2020 à 03:27, Joseph Eisenberg
<joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>
a écrit :
I oppose deprecating pump=powered, pump=manual, and pump=no. This is a
simple, clear system for use with water wells, and it is widely
supported.
1) Clarify use with man_made=water_well
Currently 88% of uses of pump=* are with man_made=water_well (the rest
are with amenity=drinking_water) and with the 3 values: pump=powered,
pump=manual, pump=no. This is a simple and intuitive system for
mapping wells in developing countries and rural areas.
Please clarify if you are asking mappers to add a separate
man_made=pump feature or if that should only be used when there is no
man_made=water_well feature.
Why should we drop the use of pump=powered, pump=manual, pump=no?
Distinguishing pump=powered, pump=manual is easy: you can hear the
sound of an electric or diesel motor, and a manual pump has an obvious
handle or similar. And pump=no is a well with a bucket or similar.
2) How can mappers figure out the technology of the pump?
How are mappers expected to find out the pump technology mechanism?
Most pumps are located deep inside the well, or hidden in a service
building or structure next to the well. And why would this information
be worth mapping?
3) Key:actuator
The proposal mentions: actuator=windmill, actuator=watermill, and
actuator=beam_engine. What do these have to do with pumps?
The current use of the key actuator is quite rare, but the documented
values are: actuator=manual, actuator=electric_motor,
actuator=pneumatic_cylinder, actuator=hydraulic_cylinder - these don't
seem to have anything to do with windmills and watermills?
What about the exiting tags man_made=windpump, man_made=windmill,
man_made=watermill? Are you proposing to deprecate these common tags?
(also in the examples "actuator=manual" is mentioned, but it isn't in
the
list)
-- Joseph Eisenberg
On 3/19/20, Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
François,
Could you please simplify the "==Proposal==" section and make it 100%
clear:
1) What new Keys and Tags (Key=Value) are being approved by the
proposal
2) What old Keys and Tags are being deprecated
3) Move the Proposal section to the top, before Rationale, so people
will be clear on what the proposal is going to do if it is approved.
This is the current "==Proposal==" section. It's not clear what new
tags are being proposed and what old tags are being deprecated.
"It is proposed to complete OSM tagging for pumps used in any domain
with the following tags :
man_made=pump
pump:output=*
pump=* is currenlty established to state if a water well runs with a
powered or manual pump (actually how the pump is driven if it exists).
We also need a terminology to define the pump technology as many sorts
exist in industry. It's then proposed to refurbish this tag with
values related to pumps mechnanisms.
Devices used to drive pumps (and get water in case of water wells)
would be better described with existing actuator=* tag instead of
pump. handle=* is also suitable for manual pumps or emergency usage
with manual action when power isn't available.
This option allows to avoid pump:type=* as well."
-- Joseph Eisenberg
On 3/19/20, François Lacombe <fl.infosrese...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Following several discussions last month, including this one:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-February/051385.html
Here is a proposal regarding pumps, obvious devices we all more or
less
know in industries or at home.
This knowledge is useful for water management, water accessibility,
industry moderation, emergency response...
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pumping_proposal
Classification is based upon Wikipedia community extensive work about
15
different pumping mechanisms. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure some
technologies are still missing in the proposal.
It's currently the most ambitious version, including pump=*
conversion
for
machine mechanisms and moving driver description to existing
actuator=*
Despite a consequent re-tagging effort (on water wells particularly),
here
are some pros arguments :
- Use more appropriate terminology and wider possibilities for
drivers
with
actuator=*
- Avoid pump:type (:type doesn't bring any information)
- With 30k occurrences of pump=* and +100k for water wells, there is
still
more wells to qualify than already qualified with pump availability.
Examples are for now incomplete. It would be great to have at least
one
use
case of each value. Feel free to contribute if you have appropriate
pictures.
Thank in advance for any comment, all the best
François
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