Hi Joseph, Would segregation of data via a namespace tagging solution, as an alternative to using place=refugee_site, address these concerns regarding fuzzy "place" boundaries and the lack of observability (ie source based descriptive data)?
Best regards, Stuart On Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 00:40 Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > In the previous proposal (Proposed features/Refugee Site Location) at > least 6 people who opposed the proposal mentioned the key "place=" was > not acceptable. > > Comments: > > "What about places that are de facto village/town but still > administered by UNHCR or another humanitarian organization or > governmental agency?" > > "...many long-term refugee camps have developed into a village or > town, where people live for many year. These permanent settlements > should be tagged as place=village or place=town, so if the tag for > refugee sites uses the same place=* key, then it is not possible to > use both at once." > > "A refugee camp or site is more like a landuse=residential area or an > amenity=social_facility, so perhaps consider using > landuse=refugee_site or amenity=refugee_site, or a subtag of > landuse=residential, like residential=refugee_site?" ( > > "Using the place tag for this causes problems in situations where the > distinction between a refugee camp and a town is vague. Is a > settlement of over 100,000 people, that's existed for 30 years and has > schools, hospitals and a graveyard a city or a camp? I think it should > be tagged as both. If it isn't then OSM will either not have some of > the biggest refugee camps mapped, or it not have some of the largest > towns/cities in the area mapped. Either would be a serious omission. > Because of that, the refugee site should be tagged outside of the > place tag." > > I'm disappointed that these concerns are being ignored. Instead, we > are told "''we recommend using only this key place=refugee_site and > not village/city since these sites have a status permanently different > to a “regular” populated place (the common legal framework of the > country doesn’t apply to it)''". That is ''not'' how we map places in > Openstreetmap. > > See "Good_practice" "Don't map your local legislation, if not bound > to objects in reality" and "Verifiability": we don't map what a > country claims to be true, but what is actually real. If a "camp" is a > 30 year old settlement with >10,000 residentis, plus shops, clinics, > schools, places of worship etc, then it is a place=town, no matter > what the local government says. > > Of course it can also be a refugee_site in a way, so the tag for a > refugree site should be something that does not conflict with > place=village/town. > > Also, is there already an Import page set up by CartONG for the > proposal to import this info from the UNHCR database? > > -- Joseph Eisenberg > > On 3/25/20, Manon Viou <m_v...@cartong.org> wrote: > > Hello, > > > > The proposed feature place=refugee_site to provide a way for mapping > places > > sheltering refugees and/or internally displaced persons fleeing the > effects > > of a natural disaster or a political crisis for example has already been > > debated and voted on from 30-01-2020 to 17-03-2020. It was then rejected > by > > a narrow margin on the final day of voting. > > > > We have since tried to answer to the concerns and comments received, and > to > > adapt and simplify the proposed tag to map refugee site location. > > > > We would like to discuss this tag with all interested people again during > > the Request For Comment phase, open until Friday, April 3rd. Thank you ! > > > > Please visit the new feature proposal wiki page here : > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Refugee_Site_Location_2 > > > > Best regards, > > Manon > > > > [image: CartONG- Humanitarian mapping and information management] > > > > Manon Viou > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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