My limited experience;
Gaps on the gpx route tend to be straight lines, ok when they are
contiguous but where they back track it gets confusing.
Some initial thoughts on what I would do, and have done on some routes
of interest to me ...
On 16/08/19 21:31, Peter Elderson wrote:
Looked at de E2 relation in Yorkshire. It would require a lot of work
to make it work for data users beside rendering, and to fit it into
the E2 superroute as a whole.
a. Nodes in the relation - not unheard of, but then with a role like
start. Should be removed.
Agreed. I don't think nodes belong on a route?
b. 10 gaps. Needs investigating the cause; some just reflect wrong order.
Re ordering is fairly easy.
c. There are a bunch of sorted chains of ways. Maybe just a sorting
problem, maybe more. Simple sort doesn't work because of the nodes and
nested relations.
Remove the nodes.
d. Contains ways and other route relations. The other routes appear to
belong to another main variant running far to the west through
Yorkshire. These should be separately checked, sorted, oriented and
repaired, and then moved to a separate relation, in the right order
(north to south).
If the relations are 'alternatives' .. or even if they are not .. move
them all to the end of the members and sort the way you have into some
order.
Then look at the gaps and see if any of the relations 'fit'.
The eastern and western variants separate in Scotland, then run
separately through England. The east route is the one that connects to
the european E2 which follows the GR5 to Nice.
The E2 has occasional signs all along the route, but the regular
waymarking is that of the constituting trails. I think that is enough
to say it's waymarked.
Anybody knows who is mapping routes in England, knows his relation
stuff, and wants to fix this?
Not in England, and not that interested in looking at it in detail.
Deleting nodes is easy, even putting them into a relation and then
placing that relation at the end so it does not interfere with sorting
is easy.. if someone objects to the nodes being deleted.
Sorting and order the ways too is easy. Dealing with 'alternatives'
needs some knowledge of the route, I don't have that.
Fr gr Peter Elderson
Op vr 16 aug. 2019 om 12:09 schreef Peter Elderson
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:
Op vr 16 aug. 2019 om 10:59 schreef Andy Townsend
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:
On 16/08/2019 08:50, Peter Elderson wrote:
> Josm of course. Is there another relation editor that can
handle large nested route relations spanning up to say 4000 Km?
P2 can, at least. Other people seem to suggest that iD does a
reasonable job now too.
Sorry to disagree. P2 and ID are aware of relations and can do a
few basic things like adding/removing a way and shifting a way up
and down, in one relation at a time. If you maintain a lot of long
distance routes, that is painfully inadequate. Even more so if you
try to do it in a way that prepares the relations for data users,
currently meaning linear and gapless gpx-es for use in navigation
software, elevation profiles, and trip planners. You need
validation, gap detection, multiple relation windows with shifting
between windows, sorting, jump to first/last member, direction
reverse, download all members even those not in the bbox, ...
The more interesting question, though, is "why do you want
walking route
relations to be sorted". The point that's already been made
about
routes that use the same way twice is a valid one, but almost
never
applies to walking route relations. What are you trying to do
with e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1976184 (the part of
E2* that
runs through Yorkshire) if it's not sorted?
If it's not sorted: display only. If I want to walk it, I want to
use OsmAnd navigation and or Garmin navigation. OsmAnd and Garmin
currently cannot use the relation directly, so I have to use a
gpx, and they recalculate the route for navigation. The gpx needs
to be continous, sorted and gapless, or it won't work. Overpass
and Waymarkedtrails can export to a routable gpx, if the relation
is one sorted and continous chain of ways.
So before exporting, I use JOSM relation editor, load the entire
thing, solve all gaps en remove duplications, move alternatives
one or more separate relations, then export the main route as gpx.
I also notify the operator of the website
https://www.longdistancepaths.eu/en/
so he can use the export for his trip planner. If he could depend
on routes to be flawless in OSM he could connect directly to it
for automatic periodical refresh.
If the route is on that planner, I would probably use that first
to plan the trip and route according to train and bus stations,
hotels & B&B's, and places on the way, then export the trip gpx
from that planner.
I will actually have a look at the E2 Yorkshire thing after lunch.
I can repair technical problems. If I need local survey I can
probably not fix it completely. Have to look at the history as
well, don't want to offend mappers over there with foreign ideas.
Best Regards,
Andy
* There are actually many other things wrong with that
relation. It's
not signed, so in a since here it "does not exist" but at the
very least
it should be tagged as such. Also it's actually defined here
in terms
of the Wolds Way (which is signed), not in terms of individual
paths. I
also doubt that the LDWA is in any sense an "operator".
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