Sorry where I said Japan I was wrong, it's actually Taiwan and Philippines.
Op vr 4 jan. 2019 om 13:08 schreef Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com>: > > > Op do 3 jan. 2019 om 13:22 schreef Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com>: > >> I wonder why it is under "highway", it seems more related to "tourism" >> / "information". > > > Current usage: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/highway=trailhead > > Overpass shows most usage is in the US, Canada and Japan, now also > Nederland, and some in Italy. > > highway can be applied to nodes and ways, and it compares nicely to > highway=bus_stop. A trailhead is then seen as a "trail stop" for trail > "passengers". I think that's why it was chosen in the trailhead proposal. > I saw no compelling reason to change that, even though I can see your > argument to use tourism=. > > Advantage of highway= is that you can still add the tourism= key for an > information board if it coincides with the trailhead. > > Do you see an actual problem with this usage? > > >> Another problem I see is that there is no other definition for > > trailheads in The Netherlands than "location being picked by the >> tourist agency as trailhead" or better "location being designated by >> the tourist agency as TOP" >> It seems to me that any other definition means that one has to map >> many more places in The Netherlands as trailhead or that some of the >> "picked by tourist agency" are not a trailhead. >> > > Lots of places give access to trails, of course. But if they are not > visibly designated/designed and operated (not just picked!), I would not > map those places as trailheads. No one has to do that. On the other hand, > in other countries useers may see fit to map those kind of locations as > trailheads, because they want to search/list them and see them on a map. > > Given that the Dutch community has a very specific definition of >> trailhead, I wonder whether this can be solved by a dedicated tag >> (tourism=top) or subtag (tourism=information;information=top) ? The >> benefit would be to avoid confusion with a more general definition of >> trailheads (whatever that might be). >> > > I fear that this would cause more confusion than it solves! I would like > not to go principle and exact definition about this, and just take the > practical approach: If a place fits the very general description I > suggested, then if a mapper sees fit, (s)he may use the trailhead tag. I'm > sure the local/regional community will moderate if necessary, to ensure the > tagging fits their situation. > > >> >> m. >> >> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:21 AM Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > Please note that the description of official TOPs in Nederland is not >> intended as a limitative requirement for trailheads around the globe. >> > >> > If we would mark every access point to a route as a trailhead, >> Nederland would be covered with trailheads, and nobody would have any use >> for the information. So we limit it to these specially designed "official" >> transit places. These can be usefully listed, searched, and presented based >> on the OSM data. Other countries may differ in what's useful, thats fine. >> > And that's why the idea is just to mark a node as highway=trailhead >> and (usually) a name. >> > >> > About the name: it's common to list places with names. The operator >> must have some kind of name or reference. Even when there is no special >> name on a sign, you still need to describe the thing, maybe using the name >> of the trail and which end (north, or a town name, road name, or..). Or >> name of the park and numbered acces points, something. >> > If there really is nothing of the sort, and the place is still deemed >> as useful to map, fine. Could still be useful to display them on a POI map >> or hiking map, but search by name is then impossible. >> > >> > >> > >> > Op do 3 jan. 2019 om 09:23 schreef Mark Wagner <mark+...@carnildo.com>: >> >> >> >> On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:57:04 +0100 >> >> Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Copying from an earlier response: Designated starting point for >> >> > multiple routes into a nature area. There is a designed marking pole >> >> > or stele, information boards, seats or benches, free parking space >> >> > nearby. This one is in a small village: >> >> > >> https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.4336993,6.834158,3a,75y,191.07h,84.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sby0P5NTeyqR3fyrgDNqCOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=nl >> >> > >> >> > Here is another one, with emphasis on Parking. On the left behind the >> >> > parking is the actual access point to the trails. >> >> > >> https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.6284198,5.0889629,3a,76.4y,32.53h,96.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy3HdYWJ2zZ1rw1ozqJyrXw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=nl >> >> > >> >> > The operators are governmental bodies. They publish the lists on >> >> > recreation websites. Each province has its own list. VVV of course >> >> > lists/presents them as well. >> >> > >> >> > These points are designed for trail access. >> >> > >> >> >> >> There's a definite disconnect in definitions here. >> >> >> >> Looking at "Nationaal Park De Loonse en Drunense Duinen", there are >> >> nearly a dozen places that that I would probably call trailheads: >> >> >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63153/5.06300 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65683/5.07140 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65623/5.08233 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.66740/5.08273 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.67192/5.07931 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.66658/5.14424 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65640/5.15269 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63970/5.14803 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63535/5.11149 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63125/5.09456 >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.62901/5.08933 >> >> >> >> only two of which appear to be designated as such. I also found >> >> about as many locations where I'd expect to find a trailhead, informal >> >> or otherwise. >> >> >> >> Compare to the main section of Riverside State Park, a park in the >> >> western United States of comparable size and urban-ness, with nine >> named >> >> trailheads and about a dozen unnamed ones: >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/47.7429/-117.5226 >> >> >> >> None of them meets the Netherlands definition of a trailhead. Sontag >> >> Park trailhead probably comes the closest, lacking only a marking >> >> pole/stele. The rest are paid parking, and most of them lack benches >> >> and information boards as well as markers. >> >> >> >> (Incidentally, if you insist on "starting point" rather than "access >> >> point", only two of them are trailheads: Nine Mile, the starting point >> >> for the Spokane Centennial Trail, and the equestrian-area trailhead, >> >> starting point for 25-Mile Trail.) >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Tagging mailing list >> >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Vr gr Peter Elderson >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Tagging mailing list >> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > > -- > Vr gr Peter Elderson > -- Vr gr Peter Elderson
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