I put some examples in the table located here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Turkmenistan#Administrative_Structure
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 11:17 PM Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > It depends on if it is part of a continuous urban settlement or not. > > I use “suburb” and “neighborhood” for places that are considered to be > part of a larger place. Usually these are mainly urban places, where most > people are involved in services and industry rather than agriculture or > forestry or fishing, and a significant percentage of worker travel to the > larger town center for work. > > Sometimes a suburb has it’s own government and town council, as is common > in the USA. In other cases (Eg Shanghai), a municipality includes area of > farmland and villages that are clearly separate settlements. So I don’t > think that the government status can be the distinguishing characteristic. > > Perhaps you have a particular example in mind? > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:30 PM Allan Mustard <al...@mustard.net> wrote: > >> By that definition, then, calling an autonomous village with its own >> council a "neighbourhood" would be erroneous, correct? >> >> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 10:24 PM Joseph Eisenberg < >> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> In OSM a neighborhood is a named part of a larger settlement, usually a >>> town or suburb or city, though in Indonesia some “desa” (villages) consist >>> of a dozen named “kampung” (neighborhoods). >>> >>> Suburbs are also considered parts of larger towns or cities. So a city >>> can be divided into a dozen suburbs, each of which is divided into a >>> half-dozen neighborhoods >>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 11:19 AM Allan Mustard <al...@mustard.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Very interesting. In the Turkmen case, the classifications are defined >>>> in law and involve both size (though population data are secret) and type >>>> of governance structure (for full details please see >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Turkmenistan#Administrative_Structure). >>>> >>>> >>>> Is it fair to call a settlement a "neighbourhood" when it has a >>>> governance structure (a village council with a chair who serves effectively >>>> as the municipal manager/mayor)? In my experience a "neighbourhood" lacks >>>> any sort of governance structure aside from (sometimes) Neighborhood Watch. >>>> >>>> apm-wa >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 7:32 PM Joseph Eisenberg < >>>> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Those municipalities are relations of type=boundary and >>>>> boundary=administrative with an appropriate admin_level, no? >>>>> >>>>> These are different from the OSM settlements, which are mapped as a >>>>> node at the center of a city, town, village, hamlet or isolated dwelling >>>>> or >>>>> farm. >>>>> >>>>> While the pages suggest certain population ranges for each of these >>>>> settled places, in the past they were defined by available services in >>>>> England. A city had a cathedral or university, a town had a (full-time) >>>>> marketplace, a village had a church, and a hamlet was too small for its >>>>> own >>>>> church but had more than one family. That’s the historic basis for the OSM >>>>> system, though in modern times the standards are less certain. >>>>> >>>>> I suspect this sort of classification can work even in places that do >>>>> not have good population figures available, like where I map in Indonesia. >>>>> For example: >>>>> >>>>> a farm or isolated dwelling has only 1 or 2 households, a hamlet has a >>>>> few families but no services (maybe there is a tiny kiosk or a very small >>>>> place of worship) >>>>> >>>>> A village has some services but only for the local community; people >>>>> do not travel to a village to go shopping, except from the closest farms >>>>> or >>>>> hamlets. Probably there is a primary school, certainly there is some sort >>>>> of place of worship. >>>>> >>>>> A town is a significant local destination. People from the surrounding >>>>> hamlets and villages will go to the nearest town to buy clothing, tools, >>>>> specialty foods and other necessities. There may be some cultural and >>>>> entertainment options, and usually some level of government services. >>>>> Towns >>>>> always have secondary education (high schools) in the countries that I >>>>> have >>>>> visited. >>>>> >>>>> A city has all this as well as major healthcare and educational >>>>> institutions, and is often as administrative center for businesses, >>>>> organizations (NGOs, religious) and local government. People travel to >>>>> cities from the whole surrounding region, including from towns, for >>>>> business, entertainment, cultural facilities etc. generally a city should >>>>> have just about all of the services that a middle-class person would use >>>>> (though the rich may need to go to larger cities for some specialty and >>>>> luxury services - OSM doesn’t have a special class for large cities or >>>>> global cities however) >>>>> >>>>> By population a hamlet has less than 1000 residents (often less than >>>>> 100), and a city has over 50,000 (usually over 100,000), but the >>>>> population >>>>> cut-offs vary by region. >>>>> >>>>> A very isolated settlement may still qualify as a town with a >>>>> relatively small population if it has the only high school, government >>>>> office, supermarket and airport on a large island, for example - in this >>>>> case the whole population of the island comes to the town for services >>>>> even >>>>> if they do not live there, so I would be comfortable tagging a settlement >>>>> of 4000 people as a town on an island with 200,000 people but no other >>>>> settlements over 1000 people in size. >>>>> >>>>> This is how I tag places in eastern Indonesia, where many villages and >>>>> towns are very isolated. Perhaps this is similar in your country? >>>>> >>>>> But in a densely populated region, like Java (where there are 120,000 >>>>> million people on one island), even a settlement with 20,000 people might >>>>> just be a conglomeration of farming villages that hardly qualifies as a >>>>> town, and a town could grow to 200,000 residents and still lack any >>>>> characteristics of a city. >>>>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 8:46 AM Allan Mustard <al...@mustard.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Looking for some guidance here from the tagging experts. Please see >>>>>> the dispute section on the Turkmenistan wiki discussion page >>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Turkmenistan#Disputed:_Suggested_Place_Tags_for_Administrative_Subdivisions >>>>>> >>>>>> The nub is that I advocate classifying Turkmenistan's municipalities >>>>>> based on their official status according to the host government (see the >>>>>> wiki article Districts in Turkmenistan). Another mapper, Aka_Bob, >>>>>> disagrees and insists that there are OSM guidelines based on population >>>>>> (I >>>>>> note that the OSM place=village article says a village can have up to >>>>>> 10,000 population, which in the United States is laughable--that would >>>>>> be a >>>>>> town or a city). Aka_Bob edited that section of the wiki article >>>>>> unilaterally without first consulting local mappers. I have no intention >>>>>> of entering into an edit war, but rather want to take this out to the >>>>>> community for discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd like to hear what people think. Opening classification of >>>>>> Turkmen muncipalities to free interpretation rather than a standard >>>>>> official classification strikes me as a recipe for chaos, particularly >>>>>> since official population data have not been published for over a decade >>>>>> (the 2012 and 2017 censuses were made secret) but maybe that's just me. >>>>>> What do you think? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards and Happy New Year to all! >>>>>> >>>>>> apm-wa >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Tagging mailing list >>>>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Tagging mailing list >>>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tagging mailing list >>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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