It depends on if it is part of a continuous urban settlement or not. I use “suburb” and “neighborhood” for places that are considered to be part of a larger place. Usually these are mainly urban places, where most people are involved in services and industry rather than agriculture or forestry or fishing, and a significant percentage of worker travel to the larger town center for work.
Sometimes a suburb has it’s own government and town council, as is common in the USA. In other cases (Eg Shanghai), a municipality includes area of farmland and villages that are clearly separate settlements. So I don’t think that the government status can be the distinguishing characteristic. Perhaps you have a particular example in mind? On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:30 PM Allan Mustard <al...@mustard.net> wrote: > By that definition, then, calling an autonomous village with its own > council a "neighbourhood" would be erroneous, correct? > > On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 10:24 PM Joseph Eisenberg < > joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> In OSM a neighborhood is a named part of a larger settlement, usually a >> town or suburb or city, though in Indonesia some “desa” (villages) consist >> of a dozen named “kampung” (neighborhoods). >> >> Suburbs are also considered parts of larger towns or cities. So a city >> can be divided into a dozen suburbs, each of which is divided into a >> half-dozen neighborhoods >> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 11:19 AM Allan Mustard <al...@mustard.net> wrote: >> >>> Very interesting. In the Turkmen case, the classifications are defined >>> in law and involve both size (though population data are secret) and type >>> of governance structure (for full details please see >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Turkmenistan#Administrative_Structure). >>> >>> >>> Is it fair to call a settlement a "neighbourhood" when it has a >>> governance structure (a village council with a chair who serves effectively >>> as the municipal manager/mayor)? In my experience a "neighbourhood" lacks >>> any sort of governance structure aside from (sometimes) Neighborhood Watch. >>> >>> apm-wa >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 7:32 PM Joseph Eisenberg < >>> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Those municipalities are relations of type=boundary and >>>> boundary=administrative with an appropriate admin_level, no? >>>> >>>> These are different from the OSM settlements, which are mapped as a >>>> node at the center of a city, town, village, hamlet or isolated dwelling or >>>> farm. >>>> >>>> While the pages suggest certain population ranges for each of these >>>> settled places, in the past they were defined by available services in >>>> England. A city had a cathedral or university, a town had a (full-time) >>>> marketplace, a village had a church, and a hamlet was too small for its own >>>> church but had more than one family. That’s the historic basis for the OSM >>>> system, though in modern times the standards are less certain. >>>> >>>> I suspect this sort of classification can work even in places that do >>>> not have good population figures available, like where I map in Indonesia. >>>> For example: >>>> >>>> a farm or isolated dwelling has only 1 or 2 households, a hamlet has a >>>> few families but no services (maybe there is a tiny kiosk or a very small >>>> place of worship) >>>> >>>> A village has some services but only for the local community; people do >>>> not travel to a village to go shopping, except from the closest farms or >>>> hamlets. Probably there is a primary school, certainly there is some sort >>>> of place of worship. >>>> >>>> A town is a significant local destination. People from the surrounding >>>> hamlets and villages will go to the nearest town to buy clothing, tools, >>>> specialty foods and other necessities. There may be some cultural and >>>> entertainment options, and usually some level of government services. Towns >>>> always have secondary education (high schools) in the countries that I have >>>> visited. >>>> >>>> A city has all this as well as major healthcare and educational >>>> institutions, and is often as administrative center for businesses, >>>> organizations (NGOs, religious) and local government. People travel to >>>> cities from the whole surrounding region, including from towns, for >>>> business, entertainment, cultural facilities etc. generally a city should >>>> have just about all of the services that a middle-class person would use >>>> (though the rich may need to go to larger cities for some specialty and >>>> luxury services - OSM doesn’t have a special class for large cities or >>>> global cities however) >>>> >>>> By population a hamlet has less than 1000 residents (often less than >>>> 100), and a city has over 50,000 (usually over 100,000), but the population >>>> cut-offs vary by region. >>>> >>>> A very isolated settlement may still qualify as a town with a >>>> relatively small population if it has the only high school, government >>>> office, supermarket and airport on a large island, for example - in this >>>> case the whole population of the island comes to the town for services even >>>> if they do not live there, so I would be comfortable tagging a settlement >>>> of 4000 people as a town on an island with 200,000 people but no other >>>> settlements over 1000 people in size. >>>> >>>> This is how I tag places in eastern Indonesia, where many villages and >>>> towns are very isolated. Perhaps this is similar in your country? >>>> >>>> But in a densely populated region, like Java (where there are 120,000 >>>> million people on one island), even a settlement with 20,000 people might >>>> just be a conglomeration of farming villages that hardly qualifies as a >>>> town, and a town could grow to 200,000 residents and still lack any >>>> characteristics of a city. >>>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 8:46 AM Allan Mustard <al...@mustard.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Looking for some guidance here from the tagging experts. Please see >>>>> the dispute section on the Turkmenistan wiki discussion page >>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Turkmenistan#Disputed:_Suggested_Place_Tags_for_Administrative_Subdivisions >>>>> >>>>> The nub is that I advocate classifying Turkmenistan's municipalities >>>>> based on their official status according to the host government (see the >>>>> wiki article Districts in Turkmenistan). Another mapper, Aka_Bob, >>>>> disagrees and insists that there are OSM guidelines based on population (I >>>>> note that the OSM place=village article says a village can have up to >>>>> 10,000 population, which in the United States is laughable--that would be >>>>> a >>>>> town or a city). Aka_Bob edited that section of the wiki article >>>>> unilaterally without first consulting local mappers. I have no intention >>>>> of entering into an edit war, but rather want to take this out to the >>>>> community for discussion. >>>>> >>>>> I'd like to hear what people think. Opening classification of Turkmen >>>>> muncipalities to free interpretation rather than a standard official >>>>> classification strikes me as a recipe for chaos, particularly since >>>>> official population data have not been published for over a decade (the >>>>> 2012 and 2017 censuses were made secret) but maybe that's just me. What >>>>> do >>>>> you think? >>>>> >>>>> Best regards and Happy New Year to all! >>>>> >>>>> apm-wa >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Tagging mailing list >>>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tagging mailing list >>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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