By that definition, then, calling an autonomous village with its own council a "neighbourhood" would be erroneous, correct?
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 10:24 PM Joseph Eisenberg <joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: > In OSM a neighborhood is a named part of a larger settlement, usually a > town or suburb or city, though in Indonesia some “desa” (villages) consist > of a dozen named “kampung” (neighborhoods). > > Suburbs are also considered parts of larger towns or cities. So a city can > be divided into a dozen suburbs, each of which is divided into a half-dozen > neighborhoods > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 11:19 AM Allan Mustard <al...@mustard.net> wrote: > >> Very interesting. In the Turkmen case, the classifications are defined >> in law and involve both size (though population data are secret) and type >> of governance structure (for full details please see >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Turkmenistan#Administrative_Structure). >> >> >> Is it fair to call a settlement a "neighbourhood" when it has a >> governance structure (a village council with a chair who serves effectively >> as the municipal manager/mayor)? In my experience a "neighbourhood" lacks >> any sort of governance structure aside from (sometimes) Neighborhood Watch. >> >> apm-wa >> >> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 7:32 PM Joseph Eisenberg < >> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Those municipalities are relations of type=boundary and >>> boundary=administrative with an appropriate admin_level, no? >>> >>> These are different from the OSM settlements, which are mapped as a node >>> at the center of a city, town, village, hamlet or isolated dwelling or farm. >>> >>> While the pages suggest certain population ranges for each of these >>> settled places, in the past they were defined by available services in >>> England. A city had a cathedral or university, a town had a (full-time) >>> marketplace, a village had a church, and a hamlet was too small for its own >>> church but had more than one family. That’s the historic basis for the OSM >>> system, though in modern times the standards are less certain. >>> >>> I suspect this sort of classification can work even in places that do >>> not have good population figures available, like where I map in Indonesia. >>> For example: >>> >>> a farm or isolated dwelling has only 1 or 2 households, a hamlet has a >>> few families but no services (maybe there is a tiny kiosk or a very small >>> place of worship) >>> >>> A village has some services but only for the local community; people do >>> not travel to a village to go shopping, except from the closest farms or >>> hamlets. Probably there is a primary school, certainly there is some sort >>> of place of worship. >>> >>> A town is a significant local destination. People from the surrounding >>> hamlets and villages will go to the nearest town to buy clothing, tools, >>> specialty foods and other necessities. There may be some cultural and >>> entertainment options, and usually some level of government services. Towns >>> always have secondary education (high schools) in the countries that I have >>> visited. >>> >>> A city has all this as well as major healthcare and educational >>> institutions, and is often as administrative center for businesses, >>> organizations (NGOs, religious) and local government. People travel to >>> cities from the whole surrounding region, including from towns, for >>> business, entertainment, cultural facilities etc. generally a city should >>> have just about all of the services that a middle-class person would use >>> (though the rich may need to go to larger cities for some specialty and >>> luxury services - OSM doesn’t have a special class for large cities or >>> global cities however) >>> >>> By population a hamlet has less than 1000 residents (often less than >>> 100), and a city has over 50,000 (usually over 100,000), but the population >>> cut-offs vary by region. >>> >>> A very isolated settlement may still qualify as a town with a relatively >>> small population if it has the only high school, government office, >>> supermarket and airport on a large island, for example - in this case the >>> whole population of the island comes to the town for services even if they >>> do not live there, so I would be comfortable tagging a settlement of 4000 >>> people as a town on an island with 200,000 people but no other settlements >>> over 1000 people in size. >>> >>> This is how I tag places in eastern Indonesia, where many villages and >>> towns are very isolated. Perhaps this is similar in your country? >>> >>> But in a densely populated region, like Java (where there are 120,000 >>> million people on one island), even a settlement with 20,000 people might >>> just be a conglomeration of farming villages that hardly qualifies as a >>> town, and a town could grow to 200,000 residents and still lack any >>> characteristics of a city. >>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 8:46 AM Allan Mustard <al...@mustard.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Looking for some guidance here from the tagging experts. Please see >>>> the dispute section on the Turkmenistan wiki discussion page >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Turkmenistan#Disputed:_Suggested_Place_Tags_for_Administrative_Subdivisions >>>> >>>> The nub is that I advocate classifying Turkmenistan's municipalities >>>> based on their official status according to the host government (see the >>>> wiki article Districts in Turkmenistan). Another mapper, Aka_Bob, >>>> disagrees and insists that there are OSM guidelines based on population (I >>>> note that the OSM place=village article says a village can have up to >>>> 10,000 population, which in the United States is laughable--that would be a >>>> town or a city). Aka_Bob edited that section of the wiki article >>>> unilaterally without first consulting local mappers. I have no intention >>>> of entering into an edit war, but rather want to take this out to the >>>> community for discussion. >>>> >>>> I'd like to hear what people think. Opening classification of Turkmen >>>> muncipalities to free interpretation rather than a standard official >>>> classification strikes me as a recipe for chaos, particularly since >>>> official population data have not been published for over a decade (the >>>> 2012 and 2017 censuses were made secret) but maybe that's just me. What do >>>> you think? >>>> >>>> Best regards and Happy New Year to all! >>>> >>>> apm-wa >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tagging mailing list >>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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