On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 5:59 AM Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 1:55 AM Doug Hembry <doughem...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> But seriously, how many aboriginal lands do you think a mapper would >> have to tag before they remember "protect_class=24"? >> > > How many mappers handle nothing but aboriginal lands? Are there so many > aboriginal lands > that even one mapper could deal with those and have time for nothing > else? I'd guess that most > mappers try to deal with everything in a locality they're mapping. But > protected areas are rare > and you're asking people to remember ALL of those magic numbers in case > they come across > a nature reserve, or aboriginal land, or any of dozens of other things. > I'd imagine this is considerably more common in Oklahoma and the desert southwest than most places, it's quite a long drive to get out of aboriginal lands from where I live. As a result, HDYC shows that my area of primary focus <http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Paul%20Johnson> is entirely within the Osage Nation <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4218876#map=10/36.5813/-96.5327>, Cherokee Nation <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8116055> and Muscogee Nation <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8116054>. You basically have to stay north of Fort Sill and west of I 35 (to greatly oversimplify complex boundaries) to stay away from aboriginal lands in Oklahoma. And, as for the future archaeologists, and "human readable": Correct use >> of the boundary=protected_area tag actually requires the use of >> protect_title=* tag that provides users with the human readable title of >> this area-type (note: not the "name", which may also be present). ie, >> protect_title= Indigenous Protected Areas, or Indian Reservations, or >> Terra Indigena, or Territorio Indigena, etc,.. > > > The protect_title is duplicating information in the class. So you're > asking a mapper to type in > (and possibly get wrong) what should be a look-up mechanism. Either > protect_title is unnecessary > or protect_class is. Unless, of course, protect_class is so broad that > protect_title is needed to > flesh it out, in which case protect_class is useless. > Not to mention in practice, this is something of a misnomer for most tribes in the US. WaPo has an op-ed <https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/11/28/half-land-oklahoma-could-be-returned-native-americans-it-should-be/> about a pending SCOTUS case on this, that has a nonzero chance of redrawing state lines and affecting national autonomy for tribes.. > The "numbers are bad" assertion worries me and prompts a broader question: >> if this is "policy", > > > It is not (as far as I am aware) a policy. It is the feeling of a number > of people here that magic > numbers are a bad idea. I suspect that many of those people base that > feeling, as I do, upon > experience of programming and/or user interface design. > > >> does it mean that boundary=protected_area, and protect_class=* tags are >> doomed in OSM? > > > I wouldn't say they're doomed, but I doubt they'll get universal adoption > as the primary way of > tagging such things, particularly if tags such as aboriginal_lands gain > approval. This discussion > isn't the first time I came across protect_class etc. Some time ago I > looked at how to map a > nature reserve and saw the choices were incomprehensible mess of > protect_class and friends > or leisure=nature_reserve. Guess which one I chose. > > I have no objection whatsoever if you wanted to introduce a tag like > IUCN=*. In fact, I think it > would be a great idea. Mappers who care about it could use it. Queries > with overpass-turbo > could use it. Nice idea. But protect_class and friends? Nah. > As an aside, no, I'm not married to how those nations are tagged right now, it's just where we seemed to be at after the last time this came up. I think it's a messy hack and not orthagonal to being readily human understandable. I can talk to my sister who knows next to nothing about OSM other than Craigslist uses it, ask her what highway=primary likely is, and get either a good answer or a spot-on answer. If I asked her about protect_class=24, I'm pretty sure she'd be dumbfounded. Plus it falls into a part of the complaints I had the first time it came up <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-April/066766.html>. Given the context of what I'm familiar with, it's actually amazing to me we haven't put this in the boundary=administrative column as we have with other political boundaries.
_______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
