I think for waymarked circular trails the UK English meaning is not too far off. The waymarks and often available map/leaflet/booklet/description do indeed bring you back to the starting point. (Remember the walking_bus discussion?)
Having said that, I think circular_route is more to-the-point, it targets the route itself instead of the service. I have asked the Dutch community for input on retagging roundtrip=yes (for foot/hiking/cycling routes) to circular_route=yes, and using closed_loop=yes for the purpose of validation. 2018-05-28 10:01 GMT+02:00 Jo <winfi...@gmail.com>: > I only saw the discussion in this thread, came to the conclusion I (and > probably many other Dutch and German speakers) had interpreted the meaning > completely wrong. > > The tag is indeed meaningless, as it stands. Especially for public > transport, where it really doesn't matter. We're describing itineraries. > For hiking/cycling it's a misnomer. So it would be good to phase it out. > > What I'm trying to accomplish, while we're doing that is to not only > replace it with circular_route, to indicate intent, but to also add a tag > that validators can use to perform validation. > > Jo > > 2018-05-28 9:54 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com>: > >> Have you seen the discussion on the roundtrip tag [1]? >> It looks as if there are two different roundtrip concepts in use: >> For hiking or cycling routes it means that the route you follow brings >> you back to the starting point with the outwards route and the return route >> (mostly) different. >> in a traffic service round trip is often used to indicate a service >> "there and back" >> "roundtrip=yes|no" is an unfortunate choice of key as it has wo meanings, >> mainly ccording to which side of the Atlantic Ocean you are. but its in use >> about 25k times. >> It might have been better to have something like "loop=yes|no" for hiking >> and cycling routes. >> For bus|underground|tram lines it might have been better to use something >> like "geometry=linear|circular|..." for transportation routes. >> >> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip >> >> On 28 May 2018 at 08:52, Jo <winfi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> From what I gathered during this discussion, roundtrip is mostly >>> understood and used wrongly by mappers. >>> >>> It's also not something about the route, but rather about a passenger >>> who buys a ticket to come back the same way the same day/weekend and paying >>> the return fare on the same ticket (aller/retour - heen- en terug). >>> >>> So I went and downloaded all objects tagged with roundtrip. The one I >>> changed needed major clean up in its members anyway. >>> >>> So how do we get from a meaningless tag (roundtrip) to something that >>> actually has meaning for itineraries? >>> >>> I think that on the one hand we need a tag to describe what the user can >>> expect (get back to approximate initial position) and on the other hand it >>> would be nice (for validation purposes) to know if the ways in the relation >>> are supposed to form a closed loop. >>> >>> hence: >>> circular_route=yes >>> closed_loop=no >>> >>> for that particular bus route. >>> >>> Polyglot >>> >>> 2018-05-28 7:47 GMT+02:00 <osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au>: >>> >>>> The real question, which as far as I can tell you haven’t answered, is: >>>> Does that same vehicle, after completing its route, start at the beginning >>>> of the same route again? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Based on your description, the route as mapped is A1->B->C->D->E->A2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Can I get on at E, stay on the vehicle, and get off at B? (In which >>>> case I would expect that after finishing at A2, the vehicle goes to A1, and >>>> you can remain on board during that time. A2 may be (but doesn’t have to) >>>> an “exit only” and A1 and “entry only” stop). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If yes, then it is roundtrip=yes. And you shouldn’t just remove an >>>> existing tag that actually applies. >>>> >>>> If no, then the roundtrip=yes is wrong and should be removed. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Jo <winfi...@gmail.com> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, 28 May 2018 15:13 >>>> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools < >>>> tagging@openstreetmap.org> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] roundtrip >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> An example of a (bus) route that goes out and comes back to the same >>>> location. It's not circle shaped at all, but that shouldn't matter for >>>> circular route. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I removed roundtrip=yes and replaced it with >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> circular_route=yes >>>> >>>> closed_loop=no >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If the last way wouldn't be in there, closed_loop would be yes. But the >>>> first and the last bus stops are not exactly opposite one another. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2018-05-27 6:22 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson <ba...@ursamundi.org>: >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 5:41 AM, Peter Elderson <pelder...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I wish you a happy trip on that bus, hope it has toilets and a >>>> tolerable coffee machine >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Oh, you sweet, summer child. Someone's never tried to take a suburban >>>> route in the US, even in a "transit oriented" American city... >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tagging mailing list >>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tagging mailing list >>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > -- Vr gr Peter Elderson
_______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
