The name in this case is for the signal, not the junction. Could you have a
named signal at a named junction, with different names?
--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
On November 6, 2015 2:58:02 AM Andrew Errington <erringt...@gmail.com> wrote:
We already use junction=yes for named junctions. Why is another tag needed?
On 06/11/2015, Gerd Petermann <gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
wow, so the problem is much bigger than I expected.
I still think that my suggestion might help to solve the problem.
My understanding so far:
- In Japan (and maybe other countries),
you would prefer to render only those traffic_signals which have a name
- Complex junctions often require several nodes with
highway=traffic_signals,
at least for the routing.
My suggestion place=junction could be used for all junctions,
maybe in combination with traffic_signals=yes/no to help the renderer.
A special Japanese style would simply ignore unnamed traffic_signals.
Gerd
________________________________
Von: John Willis <jo...@mac.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. November 2015 23:47
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Named junctions
Javbw
On Nov 6, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar
<sea...@gmail.com<mailto:sea...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'd suggest to use a node tagged
place=junction
with name=* or ref=*
for this. What do you think?
From what I remember - in Korea they name junctions, and in Japan they
actually name the signals themselves.
I know that sounds like the same thing, but people to speak and refer to the
Signal at the junction, and the name is on the signal, and the iconography
used is the signal icon. As there are almost no street names in Japan on
tertiary roads and below, spatial navigation is done through counting
*unnamed* signals and occasionally using named signals.
The big problem traffic_signals_area
was trying to solve is the over-rendering of signal icons.
Billboards, pamphlets, and now websites use static images of maps with
access directions and simplified maps that show how many signals you have to
drive through before turning and reaching a destination from a known
landmark (highway exit, train station).
Here is the access map for a very large park.
http://hitachikaihin.jp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/996e3788561dbe76ffe45257c28c7c25.png
Note the line of signals in a row. Those are there to be counted.
Because of Japan's very old and extremely convoluted road network, it is
usually not obvious where to turn - so people not using GPS directions
(actually using a *map*) Rely **very heavily** on accurate and consistent
placement of street light icons. And OSM is totally broken in this regard.
Every node gets an icon. Depending on the zoom level, there is 0-1-2-3-4 or
more icons when just **one** should be rendered. The signal icon is more
important that almost all place names.
This is something all the Japanese paper maps and online maps follow, and
Apple/Google also had to add all the icons properly to be useful *as a map*
in Japan.
Google Maps of the signals in a row. Note 1 named signal has a name box that
doesn't cover the road.
https://goo.gl/maps/E1hEzfi3iYF2
OSM has no rendered icons.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.3967/140.5927
It has a label for the lights rendered, but no icons.
Next zoom level - label disappears. So no signals, no labels. Ugh.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/36.4009/140.5901
Now icons - but two of them, with label.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.40107/140.58986
Next, 4 icons - no label
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.40160/140.58949
Finally, at z19, I get 4 icons and a label together.
What a horrible job of rendering a single icon with a single label!
This is an ****unacceptable situation**** for the Map in Japan. It
fundamentally breaks using the map for road navigation for many many map
users. and since every other map is better at this fundamental necessity of
Japanese maps, it basically makes OSM an unusable choice in Japan (for
spatial map usage while driving) and seem unfinished.
Traffic_signals_area was an attempt to solve this, but as this isn't an
issue in Europe, it was ignored.
Javbw.
Labeling the signal area is just icing on the cake of removing all the
unneeded icons cluttering the map.
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