Oh, sorry, I did not yet notice this one :-( So forget my suggestion.
Gerd ________________________________________ Von: Andrew Errington <erringt...@gmail.com> Gesendet: Freitag, 6. November 2015 09:35 An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Named junctions We already use junction=yes for named junctions. Why is another tag needed? On 06/11/2015, Gerd Petermann <gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com> wrote: > wow, so the problem is much bigger than I expected. > > I still think that my suggestion might help to solve the problem. > > My understanding so far: > > - In Japan (and maybe other countries), > > you would prefer to render only those traffic_signals which have a name > > - Complex junctions often require several nodes with > highway=traffic_signals, > > at least for the routing. > > > My suggestion place=junction could be used for all junctions, > > maybe in combination with traffic_signals=yes/no to help the renderer. > > A special Japanese style would simply ignore unnamed traffic_signals. > > > Gerd > > > > ________________________________ > Von: John Willis <jo...@mac.com> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. November 2015 23:47 > An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Named junctions > > > > > > Javbw > On Nov 6, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar > <sea...@gmail.com<mailto:sea...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > I'd suggest to use a node tagged > > place=junction > > with name=* or ref=* > > for this. What do you think? > > From what I remember - in Korea they name junctions, and in Japan they > actually name the signals themselves. > I know that sounds like the same thing, but people to speak and refer to the > Signal at the junction, and the name is on the signal, and the iconography > used is the signal icon. As there are almost no street names in Japan on > tertiary roads and below, spatial navigation is done through counting > *unnamed* signals and occasionally using named signals. > > The big problem traffic_signals_area > was trying to solve is the over-rendering of signal icons. > > Billboards, pamphlets, and now websites use static images of maps with > access directions and simplified maps that show how many signals you have to > drive through before turning and reaching a destination from a known > landmark (highway exit, train station). > > Here is the access map for a very large park. > > http://hitachikaihin.jp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/996e3788561dbe76ffe45257c28c7c25.png > > Note the line of signals in a row. Those are there to be counted. > > Because of Japan's very old and extremely convoluted road network, it is > usually not obvious where to turn - so people not using GPS directions > (actually using a *map*) Rely **very heavily** on accurate and consistent > placement of street light icons. And OSM is totally broken in this regard. > Every node gets an icon. Depending on the zoom level, there is 0-1-2-3-4 or > more icons when just **one** should be rendered. The signal icon is more > important that almost all place names. > > This is something all the Japanese paper maps and online maps follow, and > Apple/Google also had to add all the icons properly to be useful *as a map* > in Japan. > > Google Maps of the signals in a row. Note 1 named signal has a name box that > doesn't cover the road. > > https://goo.gl/maps/E1hEzfi3iYF2 > > OSM has no rendered icons. > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.3967/140.5927 > It has a label for the lights rendered, but no icons. > > Next zoom level - label disappears. So no signals, no labels. Ugh. > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/36.4009/140.5901 > > Now icons - but two of them, with label. > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.40107/140.58986 > > Next, 4 icons - no label > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.40160/140.58949 > > Finally, at z19, I get 4 icons and a label together. > > What a horrible job of rendering a single icon with a single label! > > This is an ****unacceptable situation**** for the Map in Japan. It > fundamentally breaks using the map for road navigation for many many map > users. and since every other map is better at this fundamental necessity of > Japanese maps, it basically makes OSM an unusable choice in Japan (for > spatial map usage while driving) and seem unfinished. > > Traffic_signals_area was an attempt to solve this, but as this isn't an > issue in Europe, it was ignored. > > Javbw. > > > > > Labeling the signal area is just icing on the cake of removing all the > unneeded icons cluttering the map. > _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
