Le 25/04/2023 à 02:06, Michael Johnson a écrit :
OK, Troy. I hear you saying that it is not "broken", but working
perfectly as designed. That is actually worse, because if it were
broken, there might be some motivation to fix it. As it is, I have no
hope that the World English Bible Ecumenical Editions will ever be
properly displayed in any Sword software, at least as far as having
both versions of Daniel goes. That isn't important to you. I get that.
It is more important to me to preserve the versifications of the
original works than it is to support Sword, especially if DAN and DAG
are not allowed to coexist in the same Bible. Time for a fork?
Hi Michael,
I think there seems to be something inconsistent in your choice of a
Greek translation of Daniel alongside a translation from the Hebrew (no
disrespect in the word inconsistent I will explain). If you take this
option you should do so for all the OT books which all have a Greek
translation and a Hebrew text. That's why it seemed to me that the
choice of a versification that takes into account only the Greek text
was relevant. In Catholic translations in general, both the Greek and
the Hebrew are taken into account, i.e. if the Hebrew is difficult, the
Greek is taken into account. If one makes a translation from the LXX
only in this case it becomes a proper translation, for example in French
we have the translation of Giguet. So I don't think anyone would be
shocked to see a book of Daniel translated from the Hebrew but adding
the Greek passages, as in most Catholic translations.
Another aspect I'm thinking about is the book of Tobit, we have a short
text, and a long text so again we have to choose, one or the other,
often the Catholic translations add in notes the differences between the
two texts. This is what I did for the neo-Crampon-libre, which takes
into account the Vulgate, the short version in Greek and the long version!
In any case for the Catholic versification as you only have one file for
Daniel as for Esther, I have no hesitation to pass the id in DAN and
EST. Nothing inconsistent there.
Maybe a solution for the web with DC, my idea would be to use variant. I
did this for the Greek NT. I "invented" a tag \var and use it as second
variant in the osis file. This can be great.
David's idea is also interesting but much heavier. Besides, I've been
dreaming of an updated Catholic versification for some time... In which
case, if one day we add a versification proper to WEB we could take
advantage of it to correct the Catholic one.
On 4/24/23 08:47, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
😊
I would obvious encourage the use of "well balanced" over "broken".
The use cases we need to solve are varied, but the typical cases have
to be priorities.
1) Users lookup verses by reference, e.g., for Dan 3:7. What should
they get? Majority of users don't ask for the Greek or Hebrew version
of Daniel or even know about the difference.
2) Users want to compare a verse across translations. This is the
primary motivator for defined versification schemes and maps between
them. e.g. when a user is reading Ps 10:1, and ask to see it in an
LXX translation, we need to show them Ps.9.21.
I understand the desire to let publishers flow their texts however
they want, and we should do better for the publishers, but that is by
far not the majority use case for users.
On April 24, 2023 9:51:56 AM MST, Michael Johnson
<mich...@ebible.org> wrote:
Hi Br. Cyrille,
Actually, that work-around might work for Catholic versification,
but not for the ecumenical versification of the WEB. That is
because the World English Bible contains both Daniel translated
from the Hebrew traditional text (DAN) and Daniel translated from
the Greek Septuagint (DAG). The USFM markup is correct. The
ability of the Sword Engine to interpret it is broken.
On 4/24/23 01:43, Fr Cyrille wrote:
Hi Michael,
THe problem is the same with xiphos.
If you want your file readable with the Catholic versification,
you need to use the DAN \id in your usfm file, and not \id DAG.
It's not a front-end issue but an usfm issue.
@Jon, you probably know, with Andbible in the list of the bible
books, the DC and accessible with the +.
Le 23/04/2023 à 09:29, Michael Johnson a écrit :
Hello, Jonathan.
WEB and WEBC indeed contain Daniel (Greek). However, I don't
know how to select a Sword Engine versification that can cause
the front ends (AndBible, Bishop, Xiphos, etc.) to properly
display Daniel (Greek). They can display some fragments of
Daniel (Greek), like Susanna and Bel and the Dragon, but the
World English Bible isn't split up that way, and won't be.
Daniel (Greek) makes more sense when presented as a whole. I'm
not sure if this is possible to do within the Sword ecosystem.
In the mean time, eBible.org epub files work well with Google
Books and Apple Books, among other epub readers, no matter what
their versification. You can get to any chapter in about 3
taps. The Sword Engine tries to force-fit every Bible
translation into a small set of predefined, hard-coded
versification schemes, none of which exactly match the World
English Bible. In fact, they don't exactly match a very high
percentage of Bible translations.
On 4/22/23 19:36, you wrote:
Name-> Jonathan Faust
Email-> jonfa...@tutanota.com
Subject-> AndBible WEBC Daniel
Form URL-> https://eBible.org/cgi-bin/contact.cgi
Remote IP-> 172.69.204.168
Hi there!
Apologies if I'm mistaken, but I'm not seeing Daniel (Greek)
in my bible app. It looks like both the WEB and WEBC contain
Esther (Greek) but lack Daniel (Greek). This would imply WEBC
contains no translation of Daniel. I see it on browser bible
and in the EPUB. Is this an issue with AndBible, the source
WEB files, or something else?
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26 HIWALANI LOOP • MAKAWAO HI 96768-8747*• USA
mljohnson.org <https://mljohnson.org/> • eBible.org
<https://eBible.org> • WorldEnglish.Bible <https://WorldEnglish.Bible>
• PNG.Bible <https://PNG.Bible>
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