Not really simply because binaural is meant for headphones - transaural is meant to be the binaural equivalent for loudspeakers. If you think about it - our ears have their own transfer function - the filter would have to be tailored to our own HRTFs to remove our HRTF filtering. I suppose you could try some sort of phase cancellation stuff to stop cross talk - but I really cant see it working . These guys claim binaural makes good stereo recordings but you lose the binuaral spatialisation effect :
http://www.binaural.com/binfaq.html#anchor720852 For artistic purposes I have long sort to find something that would get sounds to fly round the back of my head (or even 180 degrees) with just two loudspeakers but alas I have found nothing yet just many audacious claims and no results - I would love to be proved wrong ... On 9 January 2017 at 20:15, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote: > Augustine Leudar wrote: > > Hi Stefan - yes I have a set of soundman ones which Ive use don and off for >> the last ten years - I have really weird shaped ears though so my >> recordings dont work well on people with normal shaped heads ;) >> >> > Do they use some form of filter to get the spectral balance for > loudspeaker playback right? > > Neumann kunstkopf mikes do this since 1981 or so ("2nd generation"...) > > Best, > > Stefan > > P.S.: This is not on Wikipedia. So who would sign my claim? O:-) > > > > > On 9 January 2017 at 16:41, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Augustine Leudar wrote: >>> >>> Yes i just mean - when making a 3D sound installation you can use various >>> >>> >>>> types of panning round a sphere (or whatever of speaker array). You >>>> seemed >>>> to be saying ambisonics had a clear advantage over other types of >>>> panning >>>> for 3D audio - I was just wondering what you saw as ambisonics' >>>> advantages >>>> over VBAP. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I am really quite format-neutral... Did I claim such advantages? >>> >>> The only thing I wrote into this direction was that sound fields fit by >>> its very nature very well to 360ยบ video and AR/VR. (Isotropy, 3D >>> capability >>> even at just 4 channels, SF rotation is quite easy.) >>> >>> >>> Otherwise, we came from the discussion of quadrophony (now recording >>> history) - and then binaural recordings. >>> >>> I have recorded my own Binaural album using binaural >>> >>> >>>> microphones - it doesnt work at all on speakers - and thats with my own >>>> HRTF . Seeing as the claim has been made between "modern" binaural >>>> recordings work on two speakers (not by you incidently) - lets hear one >>>> - >>>> I >>>> can guarantee you you will not hear a barber shaving the back of your >>>> head >>>> on to loud speakers. >>>> >>>> I believe you would need certain filtering (problem: you would damage >>>> >>>> >>> headphone representation - where binaural recordings are supposed to >>> shine!), or X-talk cancellation. >>> >>> The kunstkopf concept uses some (statistically) averaged HRTF. That you >>> could do some good binaural recordings (just) with some simple in-ear >>> microphones and your/our heads is probably just a claim by your local ear >>> microphone producer... ;-) >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording >>> >>> "For listening using conventional speaker-stereo, or mp3 players, a >>> pinna-less dummy head may be preferable for quasi-binaural recording, >>> such >>> as the sphere microphone or Ambiophone. As a general rule, for true >>> binaural results, an audio recording and reproduction system chain, from >>> microphone to listener's brain, should contain one and only one set of >>> pinnae (preferably the listener's own) and one head-shadow." >>> >>> Binaural stayed in the background due to the expensive, specialized >>> >>> >>>> equipment required for quality recordings, and the requirement of >>>> headphones for proper reproduction. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_head_recording >>> >>> "The dummy head is designed to replicate average sized human head and >>> depending on the manufacturer may have a nose and mouth too. " >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Stefan >>> >>> P.S.: No, I don't sell binaural recording equipment. O:-) >>> >>> >>> I've actually found Ambisonics to be worse compared to VBAP in >>> >>> >>>> many situations and better in others - but generally I use Vbap or Dbap >>>> . >>>> The only real advantage I can see of ambisonics is having one file that >>>> can >>>> be up or down mixed - but you can do that to a degree with Vbap files as >>>> well. >>>> In terms of one of these "modern" binaural recordings - I dont really >>>> know >>>> what this means . ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9 January 2017 at 03:49, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Augustine Leudar wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Spatial audio is as doused snakeoil as the hifi world. >>>>> >>>>> I find this view a bit one-sided. At least this should not be related >>>>> to >>>>> our discussion... >>>>> >>>>> Sound localisation >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> is not a purely subjective affair - >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn't claim this. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> have there been any listening tests >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> which demosntrate binaural rendering is capable of creating anything >>>>>> like >>>>>> headphone spatialisation over two stereo loudspeakers ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I am pretty sure that the kunstkopf proponents did some scientific >>>>> listening tests. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyway -- perhaps one of these "modern" inaural recording are available >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> online and we can judge for ourselves. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> There are plenty of CDs around, so you will find some content on YT, >>>>> Spotify etc. >>>>> >>>>> I have neve rnotices any problems rendering ambisonics or vbap with >>>>> dozens >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> of channels - or even WFS . What do you mean by "you cant record >>>>>> audio >>>>>> objects" ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> What means "rendering vbap" at all? Vbap is "just" (3D) stereophonic >>>>> panning. >>>>> >>>>> You could pan some spot mikes or audio objects into some loudspeaker >>>>> layout. But you have to pan "something". >>>>> >>>>> http://legacy.spa.aalto.fi/research/cat/vbap/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What do you mean by "you cant record audio >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> objects" ? >>>>>> >>>>>> I was referring to music and scene/ambiance recording. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Of course you can record some audio objects. This is not a complete >>>>> recording yet... I admit that the citing above doesn't make a lot of >>>>> sense, >>>>> but in its context there was one: >>>>> >>>>> Stefan I am curious what are the advantages you see of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> ambisonics for 360 audio over say vbap aside from upmix downmix >>>>>>> capability ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> 1. You can't record audio objects. 2. You could reduce computational >>>>>> complexity? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I must again ask: What does "vbap" actually means in your question. >>>>> Because it is not clear what should be "compared" at all. For me, VBAP >>>>> (= >>>>> panning technique) is always used in some specific context. Is this >>>>> context 7.1 or Dolby Atmos or DTS:X or...? You see what I mean, >>>>> hopefully. >>>>> >>>>> Good night >>>>> >>>>> Stefan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9 January 2017 at 01:05, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Augustine Leudar wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <> modern binaural recordings I've heard on speakers did not give >>>>>>> excellent >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> results they gave terrible results, aside from the fact the transfer >>>>>>>> functions are messed up by room reflections and cross talk >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fair enough. But it seems that opinions about this seem to be vastly >>>>>>> different. (The quality of binaural recordings represented via >>>>>>> loudspeakers >>>>>>> is judged to be about between "terrible" and "excellent", depending >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> listener....) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it doesn't even >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> work perfectly on headphones due to differences in individual hrtfs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, quite obviously not "perfectly". Listening results will depend a >>>>>>> lot >>>>>>> on the hrtf mismatch between dummy head and (individual) listener. >>>>>>> And >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> perspective is fixed - you can't rotate some dummy head recording! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Transaural is supposed to be the the two speaker equivelant of >>>>>>> binaural >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> speakers I know spat were due to release a new version that worked - >>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>> heard it ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ambiophonics could also be used - as some already established form >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> X-talk cancellation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stefan I am curious what are the advantages you see of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ambisonics for 360 audio over say vbap aside from upmix downmix >>>>>>>> capability ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. You can't record audio objects. 2. You could reduce computational >>>>>>> complexity? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You didn't specify any application details. (So I assume you >>>>>>> referred >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> music recordings or VR.) >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stefan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, 8 January 2017, Bob Burton <b...@audiorents.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1997 "The year had started and finished with Mike (Oldfield) >>>>>>>>> collaborating >>>>>>>>> with David Bedford. To finish the year Mike played on the title >>>>>>>>> track >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> Bedford's 5th studio LPInstructions for Angels (V2090). >>>>>>>>> Surprisingly, >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> track on which Mike appeared was recorded live at Worcester >>>>>>>>> Cathedral >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the Rolling Stones mobile recording studio. This track is quite >>>>>>>>> breathtaking, with Bedford playing the cathedrals organ and Mike >>>>>>>>> playing >>>>>>>>> guitar, the natural acoustics of the cathedral make it sound quite >>>>>>>>> awesome. >>>>>>>>> Finally, the complete LP was mixed at Mike's Througham studio in >>>>>>>>> BBC >>>>>>>>> Matrix >>>>>>>>> H Quad which was also stereo compatible." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/hRIadP2XMgc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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