Not really simply because binaural is meant for headphones -  transaural is
meant to be the binaural equivalent for loudspeakers. If you think about it
- our ears have their own transfer function - the filter would have to be
tailored to our own HRTFs to remove our HRTF filtering. I suppose you could
try some sort of phase cancellation stuff to stop cross talk - but I really
cant see it working . These guys claim binaural makes good stereo
recordings but you lose the binuaral spatialisation effect :

http://www.binaural.com/binfaq.html#anchor720852

For artistic purposes I have long sort to find something that would get
sounds to fly round the back of my head (or even 180 degrees) with just two
loudspeakers but alas I have found nothing yet just many audacious claims
and no results - I would love to be proved wrong ...

On 9 January 2017 at 20:15, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
> Hi Stefan - yes I have a set of soundman ones which Ive use don and off for
>> the last ten years - I have really weird shaped ears though so my
>> recordings dont work well on people with normal shaped heads ;)
>>
>>
> Do they use some form of filter to get the spectral balance for
> loudspeaker playback right?
>
> Neumann kunstkopf mikes do this since 1981 or so ("2nd generation"...)
>
> Best,
>
> Stefan
>
> P.S.: This is not on Wikipedia. So who would sign my claim?      O:-)
>
>
>
>
> On 9 January 2017 at 16:41, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes i just mean - when making a 3D sound installation you can use various
>>>
>>>
>>>> types of panning round a sphere (or whatever of speaker array). You
>>>> seemed
>>>> to be saying ambisonics had a clear advantage over other types of
>>>> panning
>>>> for 3D audio - I was just wondering what you saw as ambisonics'
>>>> advantages
>>>> over VBAP.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I am really quite format-neutral... Did I claim such advantages?
>>>
>>> The only thing I wrote into this direction was that sound fields fit by
>>> its very nature very well to 360ยบ video and AR/VR. (Isotropy, 3D
>>> capability
>>> even at just 4 channels,  SF rotation is quite easy.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Otherwise, we came from the discussion of quadrophony (now recording
>>> history) - and then binaural recordings.
>>>
>>> I have recorded my own Binaural album using binaural
>>>
>>>
>>>> microphones - it doesnt work at all on speakers - and thats with my own
>>>> HRTF . Seeing as the claim has been made between "modern" binaural
>>>> recordings work on two speakers (not by you incidently) - lets hear one
>>>> -
>>>> I
>>>> can guarantee you you will not hear a barber shaving the back of your
>>>> head
>>>> on to loud speakers.
>>>>
>>>> I believe you would need certain filtering (problem: you would damage
>>>>
>>>>
>>> headphone representation - where binaural  recordings are supposed to
>>> shine!), or X-talk cancellation.
>>>
>>> The kunstkopf concept uses some (statistically) averaged HRTF. That you
>>> could do some good binaural recordings (just) with some simple in-ear
>>> microphones and your/our heads is probably just a claim by your local ear
>>> microphone producer...    ;-)
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
>>>
>>> "For listening using conventional speaker-stereo, or mp3 players, a
>>> pinna-less dummy head may be preferable for quasi-binaural recording,
>>> such
>>> as the sphere microphone or Ambiophone. As a general rule, for true
>>> binaural results, an audio recording and reproduction system chain, from
>>> microphone to listener's brain, should contain one and only one set of
>>> pinnae (preferably the listener's own) and one head-shadow."
>>>
>>> Binaural stayed in the background due to the expensive, specialized
>>>
>>>
>>>> equipment required for quality recordings, and the requirement of
>>>> headphones for proper reproduction.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_head_recording
>>>
>>> "The dummy head is designed to replicate average sized human head and
>>> depending on the manufacturer may have a nose and mouth too. "
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>> P.S.: No, I don't sell binaural recording equipment.     O:-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I've actually found Ambisonics to be worse compared to VBAP in
>>>
>>>
>>>> many situations and better in others - but generally I use Vbap or Dbap
>>>> .
>>>> The only real advantage I can see of ambisonics is having one file that
>>>> can
>>>> be up or down mixed - but you can do that to a degree with Vbap files as
>>>> well.
>>>> In terms of one of these "modern" binaural recordings - I dont really
>>>> know
>>>> what this means . ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9 January 2017 at 03:49, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Spatial audio is as doused  snakeoil as the hifi world.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find this view a bit one-sided. At least this should not be related
>>>>> to
>>>>> our discussion...
>>>>>
>>>>> Sound localisation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> is not a purely subjective affair -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't claim this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> have there been any listening tests
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> which demosntrate binaural rendering is capable of creating anything
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> headphone spatialisation over two stereo loudspeakers ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I am pretty sure that the kunstkopf proponents did some scientific
>>>>> listening tests.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway -- perhaps one of these "modern" inaural recording are available
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> online and we can judge for ourselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> There are plenty of CDs around, so you will find some content on YT,
>>>>> Spotify etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have neve rnotices any problems rendering ambisonics or vbap with
>>>>> dozens
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> of channels - or even WFS .  What do you mean by "you cant record
>>>>>> audio
>>>>>> objects" ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> What means "rendering vbap" at all? Vbap is "just" (3D) stereophonic
>>>>> panning.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could pan some spot mikes or audio objects into some loudspeaker
>>>>> layout. But you have to pan "something".
>>>>>
>>>>> http://legacy.spa.aalto.fi/research/cat/vbap/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you mean by "you cant record audio
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> objects" ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was referring to music and scene/ambiance  recording.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Of course you can record some audio objects. This is not a complete
>>>>> recording yet... I admit that the citing above doesn't make a lot of
>>>>> sense,
>>>>> but in its context there was one:
>>>>>
>>>>> Stefan I am curious what are the advantages you see of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ambisonics for 360 audio over say vbap aside from upmix downmix
>>>>>>> capability ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. You can't record audio objects. 2. You could reduce computational
>>>>>> complexity?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I must again ask:  What does "vbap" actually means in your question.
>>>>> Because  it is not clear what should be "compared" at all. For me, VBAP
>>>>> (=
>>>>> panning technique) is always used in some specific context.  Is this
>>>>> context 7.1 or Dolby Atmos or DTS:X or...? You see what I mean,
>>>>> hopefully.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good night
>>>>>
>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 January 2017 at 01:05, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <> modern binaural recordings I've heard on speakers did not give
>>>>>>> excellent
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> results they gave terrible results, aside from the fact the transfer
>>>>>>>> functions are messed up by room reflections and cross talk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fair enough. But it seems that opinions about this seem to be vastly
>>>>>>> different. (The quality of binaural recordings represented via
>>>>>>> loudspeakers
>>>>>>> is judged to be about between "terrible" and "excellent", depending
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> listener....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it doesn't even
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> work perfectly on headphones due to differences in individual hrtfs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, quite obviously not "perfectly".  Listening results will depend a
>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>> on the hrtf mismatch between dummy head and (individual) listener.
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> perspective is fixed - you can't rotate some dummy  head recording!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Transaural is supposed to be the the two speaker equivelant of
>>>>>>> binaural
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> speakers I know spat were due to release a new version that worked -
>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>> heard it ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ambiophonics could also  be used - as some already established form
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> X-talk cancellation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stefan I am curious what are the advantages you see of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ambisonics for 360 audio over say vbap aside from upmix downmix
>>>>>>>> capability ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. You can't record audio objects. 2. You could reduce computational
>>>>>>> complexity?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You didn't specify any  application details. (So I assume you
>>>>>>> referred
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> music recordings or VR.)
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, 8 January 2017, Bob Burton <b...@audiorents.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1997 "The year had started and finished with Mike (Oldfield)
>>>>>>>>> collaborating
>>>>>>>>> with David Bedford. To finish the year Mike played on the title
>>>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> Bedford's 5th studio LPInstructions for Angels (V2090).
>>>>>>>>> Surprisingly,
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> track on which Mike appeared was recorded live at Worcester
>>>>>>>>> Cathedral
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the Rolling Stones mobile recording studio. This track is quite
>>>>>>>>> breathtaking, with Bedford playing the cathedrals organ and Mike
>>>>>>>>> playing
>>>>>>>>> guitar, the natural acoustics of the cathedral make it sound quite
>>>>>>>>> awesome.
>>>>>>>>> Finally, the complete LP was mixed at Mike's Througham studio in
>>>>>>>>> BBC
>>>>>>>>> Matrix
>>>>>>>>> H Quad which was also stereo compatible."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/hRIadP2XMgc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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