Yes i just mean - when making a 3D sound installation you can use various
types of panning round a sphere (or whatever of speaker array). You seemed
to be saying ambisonics had a clear advantage over other types of panning
for 3D audio - I was just wondering what you saw as ambisonics' advantages
over VBAP. I've actually found Ambisonics to be worse compared to VBAP in
many situations and better in others - but generally I use Vbap or Dbap .
The only real advantage I can see of ambisonics is having one file that can
be up or down mixed - but you can do that to a degree with Vbap files as
well.
In terms of one of these "modern" binaural recordings - I dont really know
what this means . I have recorded my own Binaural album using binaural
microphones - it doesnt work at all on speakers - and thats with my own
HRTF . Seeing as the claim has been made between "modern" binaural
recordings work on two speakers (not by you incidently) - lets hear one - I
can guarantee you you will not hear a barber shaving the back of your head
on to loud speakers.

On 9 January 2017 at 03:49, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
> Spatial audio is as doused  snakeoil as the hifi world.
>>
> I find this view a bit one-sided. At least this should not be related to
> our discussion...
>
> Sound localisation
>> is not a purely subjective affair -
>>
>> I didn't claim this.
>
> have there been any listening tests
>> which demosntrate binaural rendering is capable of creating anything like
>> headphone spatialisation over two stereo loudspeakers ?
>>
> I am pretty sure that the kunstkopf proponents did some scientific
> listening tests.
>
>
> Anyway -- perhaps one of these "modern" inaural recording are available
>> online and we can judge for ourselves.
>>
>>
> There are plenty of CDs around, so you will find some content on YT,
> Spotify etc.
>
> I have neve rnotices any problems rendering ambisonics or vbap with dozens
>> of channels - or even WFS .  What do you mean by "you cant record audio
>> objects" ?
>>
>>
> What means "rendering vbap" at all? Vbap is "just" (3D) stereophonic
> panning.
>
> You could pan some spot mikes or audio objects into some loudspeaker
> layout. But you have to pan "something".
>
> http://legacy.spa.aalto.fi/research/cat/vbap/
>
>
> What do you mean by "you cant record audio
>> objects" ?
>>
>> I was referring to music and scene/ambiance  recording.
> Of course you can record some audio objects. This is not a complete
> recording yet... I admit that the citing above doesn't make a lot of sense,
> but in its context there was one:
>
> Stefan I am curious what are the advantages you see of
>>
>>
>>> ambisonics for 360 audio over say vbap aside from upmix downmix
>>> capability ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 1. You can't record audio objects. 2. You could reduce computational
>> complexity?
>>
>>
> I must again ask:  What does "vbap" actually means in your question.
> Because  it is not clear what should be "compared" at all. For me, VBAP (=
> panning technique) is always used in some specific context.  Is this
> context 7.1 or Dolby Atmos or DTS:X or...? You see what I mean, hopefully.
>
> Good night
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9 January 2017 at 01:05, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>
>>> <> modern binaural recordings I've heard on speakers did not give
>>> excellent
>>>
>>>
>>>> results they gave terrible results, aside from the fact the transfer
>>>> functions are messed up by room reflections and cross talk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Fair enough. But it seems that opinions about this seem to be vastly
>>> different. (The quality of binaural recordings represented via
>>> loudspeakers
>>> is judged to be about between "terrible" and "excellent", depending on
>>> listener....)
>>>
>>> it doesn't even
>>>
>>>
>>>> work perfectly on headphones due to differences in individual hrtfs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> No, quite obviously not "perfectly".  Listening results will depend a lot
>>> on the hrtf mismatch between dummy head and (individual) listener. And
>>> the
>>> perspective is fixed - you can't rotate some dummy  head recording!
>>>
>>> Transaural is supposed to be the the two speaker equivelant of binaural
>>> for
>>>
>>>
>>>> speakers I know spat were due to release a new version that worked -
>>>> anyone
>>>> heard it ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Ambiophonics could also  be used - as some already established form of
>>> X-talk cancellation.
>>>
>>> Stefan I am curious what are the advantages you see of
>>>
>>>
>>>> ambisonics for 360 audio over say vbap aside from upmix downmix
>>>> capability ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 1. You can't record audio objects. 2. You could reduce computational
>>> complexity?
>>>
>>> You didn't specify any  application details. (So I assume you referred to
>>> music recordings or VR.)
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 8 January 2017, Bob Burton <b...@audiorents.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 1997 "The year had started and finished with Mike (Oldfield)
>>>>> collaborating
>>>>> with David Bedford. To finish the year Mike played on the title track
>>>>> on
>>>>> Bedford's 5th studio LPInstructions for Angels (V2090). Surprisingly,
>>>>> the
>>>>> track on which Mike appeared was recorded live at Worcester Cathedral
>>>>> on
>>>>> the Rolling Stones mobile recording studio. This track is quite
>>>>> breathtaking, with Bedford playing the cathedrals organ and Mike
>>>>> playing
>>>>> guitar, the natural acoustics of the cathedral make it sound quite
>>>>> awesome.
>>>>> Finally, the complete LP was mixed at Mike's Througham studio in BBC
>>>>> Matrix
>>>>> H Quad which was also stereo compatible."
>>>>>
>>>>> https://youtu.be/hRIadP2XMgc
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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-- 
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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