Hi Stefan - yes I have a set of soundman ones which Ive use don and off for the last ten years - I have really weird shaped ears though so my recordings dont work well on people with normal shaped heads ;)
On 9 January 2017 at 16:41, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote: > Augustine Leudar wrote: > > Yes i just mean - when making a 3D sound installation you can use various >> types of panning round a sphere (or whatever of speaker array). You seemed >> to be saying ambisonics had a clear advantage over other types of panning >> for 3D audio - I was just wondering what you saw as ambisonics' advantages >> over VBAP. >> > I am really quite format-neutral... Did I claim such advantages? > > The only thing I wrote into this direction was that sound fields fit by > its very nature very well to 360ยบ video and AR/VR. (Isotropy, 3D capability > even at just 4 channels, SF rotation is quite easy.) > > > Otherwise, we came from the discussion of quadrophony (now recording > history) - and then binaural recordings. > > I have recorded my own Binaural album using binaural >> microphones - it doesnt work at all on speakers - and thats with my own >> HRTF . Seeing as the claim has been made between "modern" binaural >> recordings work on two speakers (not by you incidently) - lets hear one - >> I >> can guarantee you you will not hear a barber shaving the back of your head >> on to loud speakers. >> >> I believe you would need certain filtering (problem: you would damage > headphone representation - where binaural recordings are supposed to > shine!), or X-talk cancellation. > > The kunstkopf concept uses some (statistically) averaged HRTF. That you > could do some good binaural recordings (just) with some simple in-ear > microphones and your/our heads is probably just a claim by your local ear > microphone producer... ;-) > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording > > "For listening using conventional speaker-stereo, or mp3 players, a > pinna-less dummy head may be preferable for quasi-binaural recording, such > as the sphere microphone or Ambiophone. As a general rule, for true > binaural results, an audio recording and reproduction system chain, from > microphone to listener's brain, should contain one and only one set of > pinnae (preferably the listener's own) and one head-shadow." > > Binaural stayed in the background due to the expensive, specialized >> equipment required for quality recordings, and the requirement of >> headphones for proper reproduction. >> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_head_recording > > "The dummy head is designed to replicate average sized human head and > depending on the manufacturer may have a nose and mouth too. " > > Best, > > Stefan > > P.S.: No, I don't sell binaural recording equipment. O:-) > > > I've actually found Ambisonics to be worse compared to VBAP in >> many situations and better in others - but generally I use Vbap or Dbap . >> The only real advantage I can see of ambisonics is having one file that >> can >> be up or down mixed - but you can do that to a degree with Vbap files as >> well. >> In terms of one of these "modern" binaural recordings - I dont really know >> what this means . ... >> >> > >> On 9 January 2017 at 03:49, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Augustine Leudar wrote: >>> >>> Spatial audio is as doused snakeoil as the hifi world. >>> >>> I find this view a bit one-sided. At least this should not be related to >>> our discussion... >>> >>> Sound localisation >>> >>> >>>> is not a purely subjective affair - >>>> >>>> I didn't claim this. >>>> >>>> >>> have there been any listening tests >>> >>> >>>> which demosntrate binaural rendering is capable of creating anything >>>> like >>>> headphone spatialisation over two stereo loudspeakers ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I am pretty sure that the kunstkopf proponents did some scientific >>> listening tests. >>> >>> >>> Anyway -- perhaps one of these "modern" inaural recording are available >>> >>> >>>> online and we can judge for ourselves. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> There are plenty of CDs around, so you will find some content on YT, >>> Spotify etc. >>> >>> I have neve rnotices any problems rendering ambisonics or vbap with >>> dozens >>> >>> >>>> of channels - or even WFS . What do you mean by "you cant record audio >>>> objects" ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> What means "rendering vbap" at all? Vbap is "just" (3D) stereophonic >>> panning. >>> >>> You could pan some spot mikes or audio objects into some loudspeaker >>> layout. But you have to pan "something". >>> >>> http://legacy.spa.aalto.fi/research/cat/vbap/ >>> >>> >>> What do you mean by "you cant record audio >>> >>> >>>> objects" ? >>>> >>>> I was referring to music and scene/ambiance recording. >>>> >>>> >>> Of course you can record some audio objects. This is not a complete >>> recording yet... I admit that the citing above doesn't make a lot of >>> sense, >>> but in its context there was one: >>> >>> Stefan I am curious what are the advantages you see of >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> ambisonics for 360 audio over say vbap aside from upmix downmix >>>>> capability ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> 1. You can't record audio objects. 2. You could reduce computational >>>> complexity? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I must again ask: What does "vbap" actually means in your question. >>> Because it is not clear what should be "compared" at all. For me, VBAP >>> (= >>> panning technique) is always used in some specific context. Is this >>> context 7.1 or Dolby Atmos or DTS:X or...? You see what I mean, >>> hopefully. >>> >>> Good night >>> >>> Stefan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9 January 2017 at 01:05, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> >>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Augustine Leudar wrote: >>>>> >>>>> <> modern binaural recordings I've heard on speakers did not give >>>>> excellent >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> results they gave terrible results, aside from the fact the transfer >>>>>> functions are messed up by room reflections and cross talk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Fair enough. But it seems that opinions about this seem to be vastly >>>>> different. (The quality of binaural recordings represented via >>>>> loudspeakers >>>>> is judged to be about between "terrible" and "excellent", depending on >>>>> listener....) >>>>> >>>>> it doesn't even >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> work perfectly on headphones due to differences in individual hrtfs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> No, quite obviously not "perfectly". Listening results will depend a >>>>> lot >>>>> on the hrtf mismatch between dummy head and (individual) listener. And >>>>> the >>>>> perspective is fixed - you can't rotate some dummy head recording! >>>>> >>>>> Transaural is supposed to be the the two speaker equivelant of binaural >>>>> for >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> speakers I know spat were due to release a new version that worked - >>>>>> anyone >>>>>> heard it ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Ambiophonics could also be used - as some already established form of >>>>> X-talk cancellation. >>>>> >>>>> Stefan I am curious what are the advantages you see of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ambisonics for 360 audio over say vbap aside from upmix downmix >>>>>> capability ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> 1. You can't record audio objects. 2. You could reduce computational >>>>> complexity? >>>>> >>>>> You didn't specify any application details. (So I assume you referred >>>>> to >>>>> music recordings or VR.) >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Stefan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, 8 January 2017, Bob Burton <b...@audiorents.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 1997 "The year had started and finished with Mike (Oldfield) >>>>>>> collaborating >>>>>>> with David Bedford. To finish the year Mike played on the title track >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> Bedford's 5th studio LPInstructions for Angels (V2090). Surprisingly, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> track on which Mike appeared was recorded live at Worcester Cathedral >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the Rolling Stones mobile recording studio. This track is quite >>>>>>> breathtaking, with Bedford playing the cathedrals organ and Mike >>>>>>> playing >>>>>>> guitar, the natural acoustics of the cathedral make it sound quite >>>>>>> awesome. >>>>>>> Finally, the complete LP was mixed at Mike's Througham studio in BBC >>>>>>> Matrix >>>>>>> H Quad which was also stereo compatible." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://youtu.be/hRIadP2XMgc >>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ >>>>>>> attachments/20170107/65d28b1e/attachment.html> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sursound mailing list >>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe >>>>> here, >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170109/786a227d/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
