The “newer inspectors” are over-reaching and likely exceeding their jurisdictional authority. The model fire code is very clear that fire/life safety systems are required to be maintained in accordance with the codes and standards that were in effect at the type the building was permitted for occupancy. The only time limit to those terms is if there is a change of use and occupancy. Sometimes there are compelling community safety concerns that push the envelope, such as the nationwide wave of high-rise sprinkler retrofit ordinances beginning in the 80’s. Other examples are seismic retrofits that we’ve seen up and down the west coast. But there is NO basis for arbitrarily declaring that a scheduled system must now be a calculated one, unless there’s been a change of use. These inspectors have bosses and if it’s a city, the bosses ultimately have to deal with a city manager and/or city attorney; if I was a property owner being hit with this requirement, I would push back earnestly.
The standard prescribes the minimum flow and pressure required at the base of the riser for a pipe scheduled system, based on occupancy hazard class. Requesting proof that the water supply can deliver the required flow at the require residual pressure is the way that a pipe scheduled system should be assessed, then badging it thereafter as a pipe scheduled system. Our firm does an surprising amount of business every year re-creating as-built plans, and running models for both calculated and pipe-scheduled systems. Our AHJ’s are becoming diligent in enforcing these provisions, but it’s well documented here in CA through amendments to NFPA 25, which is adopted as a section of what we call Title 19 of the CA Code of Regulations. We’ve stopped having the issue you’re describing through partnering and successful project experiences, but there’s really no work-around for creating a calc card if there are no as-built drawings in the owner’s possession. And I emphasize that an the inspector requests that a scheduled system be calculated because of a change of use or reasonable concerns about fire loading, that’s much more subjective and the owner would likely have to comply. Steve L. From: Ben Young <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2024 8:14 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Missing Hydraulic Design riser tags We are supposed to label them as such. 5.2.5.2 in the 23 edition of 25 Benjamin Young On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 11:09 AM Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: One of the things that I see, living in an area with 80+ year old systems, is that the newer inspectors are asking for calc signs on pipe schedule systems. Hydraulically calculating pipe schedule system can be a disaster. They are 2 separate and individual system designs. A system may not necessarily meet both sets of criteria. A good example is a school in my town that has a pipe schedule system installed in the 1950s. I was asked to do a hydraulic calculation. The 2535 sqft design area in the attic contained 54 sprinklers. No way that calc was going to work. We probably should be labeling pipe schedule systems as such. Todd Williams Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Jul 30, 2024 at 10:56 AM, <Ken Wagoner<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: There is certainly an issue on that missing information. NFPA 25 addresses the need for this sign/information in §5.2.5 (2023 ed). And some of the "enhanced content" on NFPA Link to this section that this is to be noted as a "deficiency", although it is a "noncritical" deficiency as it doesn't impair the ability of the system to function in a fire. I've done considerable work on existing buildings which were being repurposed from a factory to storage, and without this information the costs of the revisions went way up since a retro set of calculations had to be performed. just my thoughts, Ken Wagoner, SET Parsley Consulting 500 West Mechanic Street<https://www.google.com/maps/search/500+West+Mechanic+Street+%0D%0A++++++++++Harrisonville,+Missouri+64701-2235?entry=gmail&source=g> Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235<https://www.google.com/maps/search/500+West+Mechanic+Street+%0D%0A++++++++++Harrisonville,+Missouri+64701-2235?entry=gmail&source=g> Phone: (760) 745-6181 Visit the website<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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