Rated chase for sprinkler piping and/or riser appurtenances within a rated stairway is excessive protection per past norms of practice. I would tolerate sprinkler pipe and appurtenances in a stairway, provided egress AND maintenance clearances. Risk tolerance has declined over the years, but this ask might originate from motivations that have not delinced over the years.
Scot Deal Excelsior Risk & Fire Engineering gms: +420 606 872 129 The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away - picasso On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 3:48 PM Hinson, Ryan <[email protected]> wrote: > Placement/coordination within the stairwell is also important since the > riser location cannot encroach into the minimum egress width or height > required through the stairwell. > > > > *Ryan L. Hinson**, PE*, SET*** \ Burns & McDonnell > > Associate Fire Protection Engineer \ Upper Midwest Region > > *O* 612-900-3755 \ *M* 763-688-4045 \ *F* 952-229-2923 > > *[email protected] <[email protected]>* \ burnsmcd.com > <http://www.burnsmcd.com/> > > 8201 Norman Center Drive, Suite 500 \ Bloomington, MN 55437 > > *Registered in: AK, LA, MD, MN, PA, TX, & UT > > **NICET IV - Water-Based Systems Layout > > > > *From:* Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2024 3:57 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: Riser in a rated stair enclosure > > > > Of a separate riser ROOM for backflow, etc. Definitely not saying that > you need a chase within the stair shaft, just that you’re not allowed to > use the under-landing space for a “riser room”. > > > > Steve > > > > *From:* Prahl, Craig <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2024 1:48 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: Riser in a rated stair enclosure > > > > I’ve never seen a requirement for a 1 or 2-hr enclosure of a riser in a > stair. The stair towers I’ve encountered are typically rated 2-hrs and the > combination sprinkler/standpipe riser located under the first landing or > off to the unused side of the ground level has never been rejected by an > AHJ. > > > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – Special Hazards | > [email protected] | www.jacobs.com > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> > > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS > > > > > > *From:* Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2024 4:30 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Re: Riser in a rated stair > enclosure > > > > Right, as long as your “riser/backflow room” is separated from the rest of > the stair shaft. And it might have to be 2-hour rated, not just 1-hour. > > > > To the question of the sprinkler riser, there isn’t any restriction in the > code, except for the obvious provisions for fire-stopping penetrations. > > > > Steve L. > > > > *From:* Anthony Carrizosa <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2024 1:22 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: Riser in a rated stair enclosure > > > > We do backflows and risers in stairs all the time, typically below the > intermediate landing, as long as it’s a minimum 1 hour construction then it > has been ok with most jurisdictions. Remember standpipes and floor controls > are typically in stairs as a standard. > > > > *Anthony Carrizosa * > > Project Manager *| *Fire Protection > > 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 > > Cell: *206-679-5283* | Office Dir: *253-341-4593* > > https://archerconstruction.com > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https*3a*2f*2farcherconstruction.com*2f&c=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tHph3goA$> > > > > *From:* Jeff Werre <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2024 1:09 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Riser in a rated stair enclosure > > > > Does code allow a sprinkler riser to be installed in a rated stairwell? > > > > I cannot find anything that prohibits it, but would like others opinions > (experiences). > > > > Thank you- > > > > *Jeff Werre, CFM * > > *Fire Plan Review and Inspection Specialist* > > > > Development Services > > City of Goodyear, Arizona > > 1900 North Civic Square > > Goodyear, AZ 85395 > > > > *c* 602 316-0704 > > *w* *goodyearaz.gov > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http*3a*2f*2fwww.goodyearaz.gov*2f&c=E,1,HWheNqpd4bMAObWDA1Pz4jKGCAJR-thfNkyG-V6ubIPnRmE78JXq5nU1kLB5Uv0b6yAs3DnR0fq9Cb648VwhZkjzd0drubjF-G192TGVad51Zbnsm7L6vOrmJg,,&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tVFDFq8g$>* > > *e* *[email protected] <[email protected]>* > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ken Wagoner <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 21, 2024 1:17 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: NFPA 14 2019 Hose Connection on the Roof > > > > *⚠** This email arrived from an external source - Please exercise caution > when opening any attachments or clicking on links * > > > > Completely agree with you John. > > Considering that I work with two adjacent agencies, each of which uses a > different hose thread. One uses National Standard Thread, the other > National Hose Thread. It's difficult to explain to contractors that > identification of the hose threads to be supplied on private fire hydrants > or hose valves can be as critical as it gets. > > sincerely, > > *Ken Wagoner, SET* > *Parsley Consulting* > > * 500 West Mechanic Street Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235* > *Phone: (760) 745-6181 * > *Visit the website > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http*3a*2f*2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com*2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tX2yXVSk$>* > > > > On 2/21/2024 1:13 PM, John Denhardt wrote: > > Rick’s and Steve’s comments are spot on. Give the fire department what > they need/want. Do not install something that no one will ever use in an > emergency condition. > > > > John > > John August Denhardt, P.E. > > Vice-President Engineering and Technical Services > > American Fire Sprinkler Association > > 301-343-1457 > > > > On Feb 21, 2024, at 13:30, Rick Matsuda <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Steve’s guidance is the best. > > When it comes to hose valves and standpipe requirements, always verify > with the AHJ to find out what they want. > > Rick > > > > On Feb 21, 2024, at 12:09 PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > To Rick’s comments: > > Concur, and also offer that while the standard doesn’t require a valve > where there is no roof access, I am aware of numerous AHJ’s who do. The > stated intent of the rooftop connection(s) is to enable forward flow > testing of the system. However – and this goes to my mantra of many years > now – it is incumbent on the designer to verify with the serving FD is they > require roof connections that they may use for firefighting. I have been > made aware of several fire incidents that used roof connection hose streams > and I am also aware of fireground strategies that encompass these > connections. > > > > The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA > 14 Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the > standard. > > > > Steve L. > > > > > > > > *From:* Rick Matsuda <[email protected]> <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 21, 2024 9:51 AM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: NFPA 14 2019 Hose Connection on the Roof > > > > This is my opinion only from what I remember after being retired for ten > years. > > > > The requirement for installing a hose valve is driven by the stairway > requirements found in the building code which requires at least one > stairway providing access to the roof. > > > > If the stairway extends to the roof, then a hose valve is required at the > top landing or on the roof. > > > > If there is no roof access from the stairway, then no hose valve is > required. > > > > The fire service will use the hose valve where they have safe access from > the stairway but they will not walk across the roof dragging fire hose to > hook up to a hose valve located where no safe access was provided. > > Rick Matsuda > > > > On Feb 21, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > There are people here with more experience than I, but if one outlet goes > to the roof, the requirement is met. > > > > > > On Feb 21, 2024 at 11:34 AM, <Joe Burtell [MT-BILL] > <[email protected]>> wrote: > > If I have 3 stair towers and the middle on has access to the roof and I > provide a connection as required by 7.3.2.7* “Hose connections shall be > provided at the highest landing of stairways with stairway access to a > roof”, do the other (2) not have to go to the roof because of 7.3.2.9.2 > “The hose connection required by 7.3.2.9 shall not be required where at > least one hose connection in accordance with 7.3.2.7 is provided in the > building”. > > > > <image001.jpg> > > *Joe* > > > > *Burtell* > > Fire Sprinkler Manager > > *D* > > *C* > > > > > > 406-204-4653 > > 406-861-4507 > > 3004 1st Ave South > > Billings > > , > > MT > > 59101 > > Office: > > 406‑652‑7697 > > www.summitfiresecurity.com > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http*3a*2f*2fwww.summitfiresecurity.com*2f&c=E,1,ZyzzqWo58xliyC5jRd9RdTLBBZo5jBEbiHix11FarpdW6p9BZLi5cyYnCyfcGhCFs7Mjew4A84L4gMd9Zn-QcKk5wbpkUpp2_prGEtUdqFeTwliA1vO3eEu-2E71&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tjGXKPfo$> > > This information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for > the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, > dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon > this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient > is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and > destroy any copies of this information. > > _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum > mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https*3a*2f*2flists.firesprinkler.org*2flist*2fsprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,zSczA6fh1z_DZmRiDK-SmOo2Q4iD1ybs-dofDAvbol2ARplwrC3CBPuJ5a3M1J8_FALzCrYwXVIdMdoRY1GetEF5HPRcSwVLnkfeGB7fJAT0jA,,&typo=1__;JSUlJSU!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tFELFh_8$> > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > > <image001.jpg> > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https*3a*2f*2flists.firesprinkler.org*2flist*2fsprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,cn2QOu3An6_NJyh_-n31_xLLKLAryTT4kv8MVY8TqJ2tAbIic9WRP3VMiL7Zsa_JQjzaIzYp9C1xb376t1oQxX-odSiNENfy2M5txOLU23NwBAyI53R1EyIXksgS&typo=1__;JSUlJSU!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tXyO6WrE$> > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https*3a*2f*2flists.firesprinkler.org*2flist*2fsprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,Gi862oLoF3I3PplbXyhBlyIqWk1hlUfaFq9LFqSSetXU_-QR2vszIPHoPCLemLpvP0IDslPxYZ0DJomXGuGZ1wGFfIq8RBojUhao19aiCM1LBGtLKy2trXyxLJY,&typo=1__;JSUlJSU!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tEoX6sD4$> > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https*3a*2f*2flists.firesprinkler.org*2flist*2fsprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,MWR4WxvMm_voDTNku1D03F-6A9h7Gjbw2wvOS49dDZ4dGxceCjdtDa2_nTMSn1oskjiBgoFgJqtSxtjY9p-j1EVkWm8Y_tlvE_y1U995rCMZ_84,&typo=1__;JSUlJSU!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3twlbc8x8$> > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https*3a*2f*2flists.firesprinkler.org*2flist*2fsprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,Zpm0EABfFsWYaANMGgf1uWLhtVfyI7HnZMUfAbuYLjv9MsLHX1mMcjxoSR48b1-eE-_y1osOjMNHzemMmoczBd_hkPjZgDRcLqK2w6x0YKgX&typo=1__;JSUlJSU!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3ttg6vig4$> > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > All messages created in this system belong to the City of Goodyear and > should be considered a public record subject to disclosure under Arizona > Public Records Law (A.R.S. 39-121). City employees, City public officials, > and those who generate E-mail to them, should have no expectation of > privacy related to the use of this technology. If you are not the intended > recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking > any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly > prohibited. > > > ------------------------------ > > > NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged > information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by > unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message > and deleting it from your computer. > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] >
_________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
