I worked on a project where we required to install a roof manifold on a roof of a wood frame building with a 1:12 pitch. The manifold was 1/2 the length of the building from the roof access, which itself was sketchy. The FD claimed they would use it in a fire. I would not want be up 4 floors in that burning bldg.
> > On Feb 21, 2024 at 4:05 PM, <Dwight Havens (mailto:[email protected])> > wrote: > > > > > > > And don't set the fire department up for failure. > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 02:14:09 PM EST, John Denhardt > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Rick’s and Steve’s comments are spot on. Give the fire department what they > need/want. Do not install something that no one will ever use in an emergency > condition. > > > John > > > John August Denhardt, P.E. > Vice-President Engineering and Technical Services > > American Fire Sprinkler Association > > 301-343-1457 > > > > > > On Feb 21, 2024, at 13:30, Rick Matsuda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve’s guidance is the best. > > When it comes to hose valves and standpipe requirements, always verify with > the AHJ to find out what they want. > > Rick > > > > > On Feb 21, 2024, at 12:09 PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Rick’s comments: > > Concur, and also offer that while the standard doesn’t require a valve where > there is no roof access, I am aware of numerous AHJ’s who do. The stated > intent of the rooftop connection(s) is to enable forward flow testing of the > system. However – and this goes to my mantra of many years now – it is > incumbent on the designer to verify with the serving FD is they require roof > connections that they may use for firefighting. I have been made aware > of several fire incidents that used roof connection hose streams and I am > also aware of fireground strategies that encompass these connections. > > > > > > > > The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 > Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the > standard. > > > > > > > > Steve L. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rick Matsuda <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 9:51 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: NFPA 14 2019 Hose Connection on the Roof > > > > > > > > > > > > This is my opinion only from what I remember after being retired for ten > years. > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirement for installing a hose valve is driven by the stairway > requirements found in the building code which requires at least one stairway > providing access to the roof. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the stairway extends to the roof, then a hose valve is required at the top > landing or on the roof. > > > > > > > > > > > > If there is no roof access from the stairway, then no hose valve is required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fire service will use the hose valve where they have safe access from the > stairway but they will not walk across the roof dragging fire hose to hook up > to a hose valve located where no safe access was provided. > > > > > > Rick Matsuda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Fpdcdesign <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are people here with more experience than I, but if one outlet > > goes to the roof, the requirement is met. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 2024 at 11:34 AM, <Joe Burtell [MT-BILL] > > > (mailto:[email protected])> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I have 3 stair towers and the middle on has access to the roof and I > > > provide a connection as required by 7.3.2.7* “Hose connections shall be > > > provided at the highest landing of stairways with stairway access to a > > > roof”, do the other (2) not have to go to the roof because of 7.3.2.9.2 > > > “The hose connection required by 7.3.2.9 shall not be required where at > > > least one hose connection in accordance with 7.3.2.7 is provided in the > > > building”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <image001.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burtell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fire Sprinkler Manager > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 406-204-4653 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 406-861-4507 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3004 1st Ave South > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Billings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 59101 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 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