John, I think this may have gone to the wrong person. I was struggling with the local 3rd party plans examiner requiring that we pull a fire permit on the domestic underground line that feeds the fire sprinklers. Thank you, Chris Dorn
[cid:[email protected]] From: John Denhardt <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:35 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: FDC for Standpipe Chris - I'm not following. Hydraulics does not influence the flow rate through the storz connection. The flow rate is limited by the size of the connection. For example if you need a 1,000 GPM flow rate, two 4" storz would be the minimum number allowed by NFPA 14. The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects. This is provided with the understanding that the AFSA assumes no liability for this opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to be considered the official position of the AFSA, and/or NFPA or its technical committees.AFSA cannot provide design or consulting engineering services, and this opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. Thanks, John [https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4h8r7hdtsr6154/AFSA_L.png?raw=1] John August Denhardt, PE Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services American Fire Sprinkler Association m: p: 301-343-1457 214-349-5965 ext 121 w: firesprinkler.org<http://firesprinkler.org/> Treat Your Apprentices Like VIPs! AFSA’s Virtual Instruction Program (VIP) for Apprentices is training that comes straight from our expert instructors. They lead the way to ensure your men and women are trained, letting you focus on OJT. Click here<https://www.firesprinkler.org/sprinkler-apprentice-training/> to learn more and enroll. On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 6:57 AM Chris Wilson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> I would hope there would be a provision that if you hydraulicly prove it whit one connection that should be acceptable. Christopher S. Wilson SET Project Design Manager Treasure Valley Fire Protection 2731 S. Saturn Way Boise, ID 83709 Phone: 208-362-1888 Fax: 208-362-2207 please note all TVFP email addresses have changed new email below [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2024 10:48 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: Dewayne Martinez <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: FDC for Standpipe That’s hydraulics. If you can deliver the demand with no more inlet pressure than the FD is willing to accept, I think you can use 4” for the FDC. The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the standard. Protection Design and Consulting Steve Leyton, President T | 619.255.8964 x 102 | www.protectiondesign.com<http://www.protectiondesign.com/> 2851 Camino Del Rio South | Suite 210 | San Diego, CA 92108 Fire Protection System Design | Consulting | Planning | Training From: Dewayne Martinez <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2024 9:30 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: Dewayne Martinez <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: FDC for Standpipe Would a 5”x4” Storz be 750gpm because of the Storz connection size or 500gpm because of the pipe? From: John Denhardt <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2024 10:39 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: FDC for Standpipe Here is the reference: NFPA 14 - 2024 10.7.3.1.1 Where a 4 in. (100 mm) inlet is used, the assumed flow per inlet shall be 500 gpm (1900 L/min). 10.7.3.1.2 Where a 5 in. (125 mm) inlet is used, the assumed flow per inlet shall be 750 gpm (2850 L/min). The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects. This is provided with the understanding that the AFSA assumes no liability for this opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to be considered the official position of the AFSA, and/or NFPA or its technical committees.AFSA cannot provide design or consulting engineering services, and this opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. Thanks, John [https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4h8r7hdtsr6154/AFSA_L.png?raw=1] John August Denhardt, PE Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services American Fire Sprinkler Association m: p: 301-343-1457 214-349-5965 ext 121 w: firesprinkler.org<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/05225bcc/ClJhZiur_EuTVK5AEN1N7A?u=http://firesprinkler.org/> Treat Your Apprentices Like VIPs! AFSA’s Virtual Instruction Program (VIP) for Apprentices is training that comes straight from our expert instructors. They lead the way to ensure your men and women are trained, letting you focus on OJT. Click here<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/0d0f910e/I3IXFpacwkKPqQT68TdoAA?u=https://www.firesprinkler.org/sprinkler-apprentice-training/> to learn more and enroll. On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 11:25 AM John Denhardt <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: To all - review NFPA 14 -2024 as it has new requirements for 4" and 5" storz connections. 4" is limited to 500 GPM per connection 5" is limited to 750 GPM per connection Unfortunately, I'm at a conference where my internet connection is very limited, otherwise I would give you a section reference. The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects. This is provided with the understanding that the AFSA assumes no liability for this opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to be considered the official position of the AFSA, and/or NFPA or its technical committees.AFSA cannot provide design or consulting engineering services, and this opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. Thanks, John [https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4h8r7hdtsr6154/AFSA_L.png?raw=1] John August Denhardt, PE Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services American Fire Sprinkler Association m: p: 301-343-1457 214-349-5965 ext 121 w: firesprinkler.org<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/05225bcc/ClJhZiur_EuTVK5AEN1N7A?u=http://firesprinkler.org/> Treat Your Apprentices Like VIPs! AFSA’s Virtual Instruction Program (VIP) for Apprentices is training that comes straight from our expert instructors. They lead the way to ensure your men and women are trained, letting you focus on OJT. Click here<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/0d0f910e/I3IXFpacwkKPqQT68TdoAA?u=https://www.firesprinkler.org/sprinkler-apprentice-training/> to learn more and enroll. On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 11:09 AM Ken Wagoner <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Brian, Yes, I have been required to provide such a connection in the past. It has been rare, and it was a gorilla sized high rise building. For me arguing with the AHJ over this seemed pointless. sincerely, Ken Wagoner, SET Parsley Consulting 500 West Mechanic Street Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235 Phone: (760) 745-6181 Visit the website<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/dde5c241/bF3XlLWBtU65V9CSGGAr2A?u=https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%253a%252f%252fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%252f%26c=E%2C1%2CY5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK%26typo=1> On 3/14/2024 10:01 AM, Brian Harris wrote: Anybody ever had an AHJ required a 4-way FDC with (4) Storz connections to feed a standpipe? I get the (1) 2-1/2” connection per 250 gpm but you’re also allowed a “large diameter” hose connection. In this case the current FDC is a 5” Storz on 6” underground. Thank you, Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssystemsinc.com<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/c471525e/x4UtYt2Sbk2diYD-cOmpjg?u=http://bvssystemsinc.com/> Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/eb95be2f/xJ_tzfhPPESks3df1GbOsw?u=https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/eb95be2f/xJ_tzfhPPESks3df1GbOsw?u=https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
_________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
