Marshall The predicted conversion of mass into energy occurs at extraordinary circumstances well beyond the point of our discussion. There are several issues at work here. I would like to address them so we put the matter to rest. The issue is one of sensitivity or the capacity of any balance to detect such a minute change in weigh. As I explain below, the change in weight is so minuscule that no balance will be able to detect it. The second issue is one of repeatability. The repeatability (the capacity of any instrument to reproduce the same result from the same experiment) of a balance is at best half of its accuracy (purported in this case to be 0.001 g). So, at best, if your repeat the same weighing you are bound to obtain results within a margin of error of 0.0005 g. However, if you add 5 g of silver (SpG 11) to 999995 gm of water, you still have one million gms. with a volume of 999995 ml because the silver occupies the molecular interstitial space and thus the increase in volume is negligible. The SpG of this suspension would then be 1.000005 g/ml. So you would trying to compare the weight of water (1.000000 gm) with the weight of a 5 ppm suspension (1.000005 gm ) As you can see well beyond the detection limit of any commercial balance. Finally, I would also like to remind you that the fact that a balance can read up 0.001 gm does not assure you that the accuracy will be 0.001 g. One thing is the readability another thing is the accuracy. Marshall, I do appreciate the discussion. Hope I was of help. Cheers Frank
From: Marshall Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:52 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Frank Subject: Re: CS>Wet weight? I am unclear if he is measuring weight (in actuality mass) or density. Density certainly changes with temperature, but weight and mass does not (ignoring Einstein). Is he starting with a certain weight of water, adding silver, then reweighing? In that case the only thing I can think of is evaporation has reduced the weight while making the silver. If on the other hand he is measuring out a specific volume of water both before and after, and using those weights, that would reflect a density difference. Can you elaborate a bit more on your procedure? Marshall On 2/26/2011 8:49 AM, Frank wrote: Hi guys Forgive me for intruding but .....The best analytical balances have a sensitivity of 0.0001 gm. and an accuracy of +-0.0002. If you are adding 5 parts per million of a compound with a specific gravity of 11 (silver) to a liquid with a Spg of 1.0 (distilled water) , how do you expect to pick up the difference in weight? Weight does not change with temperature. Only the volume does. Whether you “cluster” ions or not their weight does not change. Vortexing water will not change the weight. But if you introduce air, for example, you are changing the density and that is another matter. Keep in mind that weight is a direct reflection of mass and mass does not change with temperature, vortexing, etc. Hope it helps Frank From: Neville Munn Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: CS>Wet weight? I'm fairly confident the measurements are right. I went through the same exercise this morning and although measurements are different today from yesterday the scales DO pick up differences in weight, of that I have no doubt. However, I suspect this is not a successful way of doing things due to several factors just off the top of my head: a) Temperature of medicine cup may increase with manual handling, which in turn will heat water/solution contained within {can only afford to do the procedure once}? b) Although temperature of EIS is the same today as yesterday the plain DW may not be? {failed to measure plain DW temperature and used DW temp from yesterday} c) Water temperature may rise during the time measurements are taken. {again, manual handling of cup, containers, syringe and day temp rising praps} d) There may be some weight differences between Ag ions and ion cluster characteristics which may be influencing results? *this is probly an unknown* e) I have been vortexing the water prior to production in recent batches. Would now need to make a few batches without vortexing the water and see what difference there is...if any? {probly won't bother as I don't think my weighing exercise was of any use}. Although the scales do pick up differences in weight I don't believe this method is at all useful due to aforesaid factors. I say this because as an example, the medicine cup weighs more today than yesterday {room temperature may be heating things a tad?}. Just too many external influences and variables that can affect results to be of any practical use. The idea seemed good in principal, but I don't think it works in practice, nevermind, if one never never goes one never never knows. If nothing else it's made me question any possible differences there may be between weight characteristics of Ag ions in solution and ion clusters {particles} in solution...if any? N. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:20:53 -0500 From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: CS>Wet weight? How confident are you of your measurements? Basic chemistry says that water with silver in it should have a density which is higher, not lower than distilled water. However there have been a number of reports that nanosilver structures water, sort of like homeopathy. If that is the case, then any restructuring, or crystalization of the water would be expected to have an effect on the density. If your measurements are indeed correct, this may be confirmation of those reports. Marshall
