On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Varun Prakash <[email protected]>wrote:
> I don't intend to be personal here, but, I've heard this from most of the > people who've been to India for a few years. You've got to understand why > it is the way it is in India. Just coming across facts that everyone knows > doesn't help you know :) In my case, i speak from personal experience... they were not FOAF or friend stories, rather every point (without exception) that i mentioned was one of personal experience... of course, a lot around me quantified and qualified it with their own experiences... > As an entrepreneur, may be you are trying to solve a few problems which > you've enlisted below. What is essential in this group is what we can learn > from India and not the state of affairs which is very well known. > Well... my email was in response to David's... it was not a random rant :) As an entrepreneur the facts are very important... and i suspect there are at least two facets about india (or any other place) we are interested in... what we can learn from that place, and what we can do to succeed in that place... No doubt there are a few entrepreneur's looking at expanding into india... it is one of the world's fastest growing economies, and anecdotal evidence helps people make smarter decisions... especially when it comes in the context of particular conversations / environments... > > Also, you've got to get your facts right before coming up with statements > like "lack of family ethics and most personal lives there". > > What makes you think my facts are wrong? Newly rich indian's (including the middle class) are taking to alcohol, materialism, abuse and adult services to new levels (not saying they are are, but yes, generalising, the rate of increase of the aforementioned has exponentially increased in the past decade), and as within any context, diversity produces brilliance as well, as we have seen in some of the mad scientists and other genius that have come from there. Again, my points were all from vast personal experiences, where i saw many families crumble (then some stitched together), abuse, alcoholism (which is unfortunately considered so cool, the newly rich to super rich consider it "super cool" to be smashed drunk every single night!), and shows of extragavance that leave the mind boggling (in one wedding for example - a 7 day affair, approx AUD $2 million was spent and the work was done mostly by adult labour getting $1.50 per day and lots of child labour getting $1 for a days work! Let me relate it back though... most of those workers have mobile phones... and here's a thought... days of our lives was very popular in india bout 10 years ago... and the reason it was one of the best things to have happened is that the "lower income class" used to watch people demanding good hospital treatment... they started following what was done in the soaps and refused to put up with abuse in many hospitals... imagine, TV as a tool for education on rights via days of our lives!!!!! who would have thought :) Similarly, now there are about 600 million mobile phones in India... coming up with a scheme where education can be delivered to them on their rights or other types of education... imagine, perhaps those children working at that wedding, tweeting... so it's not a lone voice of a "righteous" person... but the voice of the people themselves that gets to a larger audience... now that's worth innovating for... (egypt anyone... i'm not a huge fan of facebook... but it is unarguable that it has facilitated communication in some revolutions)... surely with the right inventor / entrepreneur that many phones in the hands of the masses is an opportunity :) Thinking aloud again... there is a lot of charity work that goes on in all parts of the world... are charities doing anything innovative using the web or in particular mobile (now with gps, camera's etc) to curb the rates of kidnapping, slavery, and other forms of injustice... > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:25 PM, simran <[email protected]> wrote: > >> What a lovely picture you paint David... :) deep philosophical thought >> and long term thinking :) :) :) >> >> It is so romantic (from an etherial point of view)... but in my >> experience, having lived there for just under 4 years, all is not as it >> seems.. >> >> In my experience in the last four years: >> * came across some filthy rich people (yes, filthy is the right word) - >> those that do scams in the billions >> * came across some very very poor people (and plenty of child labour, >> abuse, etc) >> * car stolen by neighbour's son, and the subsequent police involvement, >> and bribery from both sides (including dingy deals in dark alleyways) >> etc... >> * hit and run - including a court case - seeing bribes in the courthouse >> under the photo of the "father of the nation" (Gandhi)! (in front of over a >> hundred people) >> (incidently, at least in karnataka (a southern indian state), if you >> hit a **poor** person (with your car), the fine is Rs.2500 ($50), if you >> kill him, its Rs. 10,000 ($200) + about $1k-$5k in bribes! >> * the waiving of money before giving it to lawyers in the courthouse to >> "progress your file" >> * corporate deceit >> * lack of family ethics and values in most personal lives there >> * many hanging on to religion because they have nothing else to hang on >> to... >> * happiness in the midst of despair and calm in the midst of chaos >> * staying in the largest slums of asia and seeing sometimes the most >> horrific and sometimes the most beautiful things there! >> >> I feel like the experiences almost lend themselves to a shantaram type >> book :) (although not drug ridden, but with equal duality of experience / >> variances in corporate / personal life). >> >> We can romanticise the country, but only from afar, as for as material is >> concerned, there is seldom a person not wanting to clamour for more wealth >> at *any expense* - you don't often find saints/sadhus without golden >> watches on their hands using the latest mobile phones, temple priests that >> don't take bribes to "let you see the deity" - (there are temples in india >> that are far richer than the vatican...; recently one was found where there >> was at least between $2-20billion dollars worth of gold in the vaults; >> no-one knows the exact value because they have not opened all the vaults)... >> >> Oh, the IT industry entrepreneurs want their millions today, in less than >> 6 perceived months that it might take in silicon valley, belief in an >> afterlife is contradicted with the everyday reality of no faith in "getting >> it later" - it's the land of contradictions and as lao tzu says, things are >> not shades of grey, they are black and white at the same time... there is >> immense cruelty (for a land of so many vegetarians (comparatively) you >> should see the cruelty to every animal and everything on the streets >> (except in *some* cases, cows)), and yet there is hope too... the grapes of >> materialism are only sour when they seem unreachable, and philosophical >> thoughts of contentment kick in... >> >> One must maneuver carefully in that land, be not too quick to romanticise >> it, nor too quick to discard it... for the devil and the god are the very >> same thing there... you have to know how to extract what you need for the >> outcome you desire... >> >> s. :) >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 11:21 AM, David Lyon < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> What's interesting to understand about Asia is that India is (often) >>> referred to as being the master-culture for Asia. >>> >>> For example, the Buddist Temples that you will see in Korea, Japan >>> and China all come from India. Materials no, just the techniques and >>> philosophies. >>> >>> Once upon a time when Japan was just a bunch of fishing and hillside >>> villages, India was a powerhouse of philosophical thought. If you listen >>> to the Guru's in India now, you might well believe it still is. :-) >>> >>> Anyway, why do we care in the IT/Business sphere ? well the Buddhist >>> philosophy marks a different pace of economic development than what's >>> found in Western Countries. >>> >>> Actually, the Asian pace of development is (self-described) as being >>> much slower than the "make a 5 million bucks in 24 months" philosophy >>> of the west. >>> >>> The core value however that powers Asia, is one of slow improvement >>> of one's self. Meaning the skills that one has, in production and >>> marketing >>> of tech devices/hardware/software. >>> >>> "Just concentrate" (on the tech) is perhaps a skill that Australians >>> could >>> really learn and benefit from and is essential for doing business in >>> Asia. >>> >>> Asia is a place where multiple innovations are expected. But more >>> importantly, >>> attention to the task of refinement is then demanded. It's slightly >>> different way >>> of working to what we might be used to here. >>> >>> Of course, it's similar in Silicon Valley too. But there's a lighter >>> demand >>> on production as it's assumed that more innovations are around the >>> corner which may end up being bigger and better. >>> >>> In Asia, the philosophy is a bit different. Future innovations just tend >>> to get rolled into the existing business. In better countries, a dozen >>> at a time. >>> >>> Depending on which way we decide to trade, we need to understand the >>> subtle differences between the two different markets. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon >>> Beach Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for >>> more >>> >>> Forum rules >>> 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. >>> 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs >>> >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach >> Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more >> >> Forum rules >> 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. >> 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en >> > > > > -- > Varun > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more > > Forum rules > 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more Forum rules 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en
