That suggests that some capacity building is in order. They have what is effectively a fiduciary duty to IP space.
So they can no more not develop competence in this than a bank manager can disclaim all competence in assessing whether a loan that they disburse is going to be repaid or not, used for illegal activity or not etc. --srs ________________________________ From: Nick Hilliard <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, 01 August 2026 15:04:54 To: Suresh Ramasubramanian <[email protected]> Cc: Serge Droz <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Security-wg] Re: Abuse mailboxes are increasingly no longer monitored and are being replaced by (bad) forms Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote on 01/08/2026 01:33: > So in essence nobody wants to accept responsibility to address this > because x is illegal in one country but it could be legal somewhere else > so that they think they’ll be exposed to litigation if they take any > action at all? Suresh, I didn't say that. What I said was that the suggestions being put forward would put the RIPE NCC in the position of being expected to make decisions which are well outside their area of competence and that these calls would be largely equivalent to legal judgements; also, that the proposed sanction (deregistration of number resources) is unsuited to the deal with the problem at hand. If you want to claim that the RIPE NCC would be immune to liability for this style of decision and outcome, I'd be interested to understand why. Nick > In all such cases (let us assume, as an extreme example, child abuse > material, versus some country where the age of consent is absurdly low - > there are countries where this age is pre teen ) the general rule has > been to make it subject to the law of the host country, or in ripe ncc’s > case, Dutch law. > > --srs > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Nick Hilliard <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, 31 July 2026 23:28:47 > *To:* Serge Droz <[email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [Security-wg] Re: Abuse mailboxes are increasingly no longer > monitored and are being replaced by (bad) forms > Serge, > > Serge Droz wrote on 31/07/2026 18:30: >> It's not venting. It's stating the facts: > > it's taking a swipe at people. > >> All you write are reasons why we should not change things. Alternatives >> could be > > There are plenty of other proposals or groups of proposals that I've > supported over the years, some controversial, some not so. This isn't > because I don't want online abuse to be dealt with, or that I like > objecting to RIPE policy proposals: it's because the proposals that are > coming out of security-wg / abuse-wg have, in my opinion, really serious > and fundamental problems with them which haven't been addressed by the > proposal authors. > >> 1. Check how the others do and copy it >> >> or >> >> 2. Instead of saying X is not workable, you could say It seems X is >> no workable, but we could try Y to solve this. But the second part >> never comes. > > It never comes from the policy proposer either, which is the actual > problem here. Also, I don't have a workable alternative to the reality > that the RIPE NCC doesn't have supranational judicial authority or that > it's subject to the laws of the country where it legally resides. > > It's also correct to say that when someone comes up with a RIPE > Community policy proposal, that it needs to be able to withstand > reasonable criticism, and that if the proposer can't withstand that > criticism, then the policy proposal should fail. The proposals aren't > precious. I've had plenty of proposals shot down by other people. So what? > > Nick > ----- > To unsubscribe from this mailing list or change your subscription > options, please visit: > https://mailman.ripe.net/mailman3/lists/security-wg.ripe.net/ > As we have migrated to Mailman 3, you will need to create an account > with the email matching your subscription before you can change your > settings. > More details at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/mailman-3-migration/ > > > ----- > To unsubscribe from this mailing list or change your subscription options, > please visit: https://mailman.ripe.net/mailman3/lists/security-wg.ripe.net/ > As we have migrated to Mailman 3, you will need to create an account with the > email matching your subscription before you can change your settings. > More details at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/mailman-3-migration/ >
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